Soldato
You don't seem to be able to understand his point either, so lets not get carried away here.
When are you going fully electric?
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Appreciated! But now you have swivelled and are saying that you bought a BEV knowing that financially, for the product which you bought, makes no sense. This is absolutely fine, i have no issue with this, i buy many things which make no sense, too.
This is the whole point though
Unfortunately, apples for apples, they don't work. That is the whole leadup to my post by other members, the point in my post, and the point of all of my subsequent posts 
Soldato
For Journey: BEV first, brand second
For Jez: Brand first, BEV second
It's pretty clear that different people have different priorities. There's no need for arguing!
For Jez: Brand first, BEV second
It's pretty clear that different people have different priorities. There's no need for arguing!
And indeed the last thing i can ever be bothered with is a pointless argument, not meaning to have one!For Journey: BEV first, brand second
For Jez: Brand first, BEV second
It's pretty clear that different people have different priorities. There's no need for arguing!
I merely unfortunately am in the position that i actively want an EV, but i cannot have one, as to buy one would cost me so much more than a fair comparison ICE that it is just a stupid prospect.
(Hence going round in circles, do i get a silly little i3 REX as well, keep the proper cars for leisure, but what a hassle)
Soldato
It's pretty clear that different people have different priorities. There's no need for arguing!
There's no argument, but he assumes the BEV costs more too. Also can't understand that I actively wanted a 'better' brand BEV, but couldn't get one, so had to PUT UP with a crappy Hyundai.
Assume only couldn’t get one because they cost so damn much though!There's no argument, but he assumes the BEV costs more too. Also can't understand that I actively wanted a 'better' brand BEV, but couldn't get one, so had to PUT UP with a crappy Hyundai.
The Model S, X, 3(?), Ipace, Taycan etc are all better BEVs, but they are all such a rip off.Basically, this is all Johnnycoupes fault, as the ocuk resident car manufacturer guy. Please instruct all of the legacy manufacturers to start making some decent cars ASAP please. I want a used one at some point and at this rate I’ll be waiting 20 years.
Soldato
No problem. On it 
Soldato
Assume only couldn’t get one because they cost so damn much though!
I actually regret not getting a Model 3 SR+ when I could have back at the end of 2019, as it would have lost about £3k in two years (if we care about the TCO at all), if we are talking about more premium vehicles. Take a look on Autotrader at used SR+ prices to see what I mean, it would have cost almost nothing vs ICE of the same price, just in the fuel savings alone.
So is it a rip off if you lost so little vs. any other brand new car?
No that’s very good indeed and makes me quite sad that I’ve paid out for say 40k miles of diesel in that same time, and lost probably 5k on the car in the time too 
I will have lost absolutely magnitudes more with my E class, although surely piling 40k miles onto the Model 3 would cause it to shed more than 3k value?
I thought about a model S back then actually, they haven’t lost much either, they were 30k then for a used 2014 and not loads less than that now all told plus the fuel savings
I don’t feel like I can win with cars
I will have lost absolutely magnitudes more with my E class, although surely piling 40k miles onto the Model 3 would cause it to shed more than 3k value?
I thought about a model S back then actually, they haven’t lost much either, they were 30k then for a used 2014 and not loads less than that now all told
plus the fuel savings I don’t feel like I can win with cars
I'd be annoyed if I had leased an early Model 3, especially an SR+ given how little they have depreciated.
A 3 year PCH @ 10k miles/year costs £21k (£4k + 36 X £540 less £2,500 grant) or 55% of the value a new one at the time (£38.5k after the grant)
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A 3 year PCH @ 10k miles/year costs £21k (£4k + 36 X £540 less £2,500 grant) or 55% of the value a new one at the time (£38.5k after the grant)
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I'd be annoyed if I had leased an early Model 3, especially an SR+ given how little they have depreciated.
A 3 year PCH @ 10k miles/year costs £21k (£4k + 36 X £540 less £2,500 grant) or 55% of the value a new one at the time (£38.5k after the grant)
*hides*
I leased a 2019 SR+ .. admittedly at an extremely good monthly price but still would have been better off buying one with the way they have depreciated so little. At the time I was worried they would depreciate a lot but the opposite has happened!
Caporegime
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It was about 34kwh/per 100 miles.
Soldato
In terms of brand, in my opinion EVs do tend to feel more premium than their equivalent cars as the drivetrains are so smooth you can get away with going down a few notches. I’m currently driving a Kona, previous to this was a BMW i3s. I actually prefer the build quality of the Kona but would never put an i30 petrol or similar over a 1 series.
A lot of people make the EV decision all about cost, but it’s hard to justify like for like unless you’re doing mega miles or already buy cars new. I used to do 30k+ miles a year and the lease on my i3 was cheaper than my previous fuel bill alone, but as you drop the mileage it swings the other way quite quickly since electricity is such a cheap part of the overall running cost.
There are lots of other things I like:
If you genuinely do 900miles in a day, stop for 10mins, then drive 900miles home, then an EV isn’t for you. In the same way that you wouldn’t tow the family caravan once a year to France with your partner’s 1L Yaris, it isn’t the right tool for the job. But they can cope quite easily with an occasional long journey and it really doesn’t feel too painful, you just plan to eat food somewhere with a charger. It’s not like sitting in the car for 20mins is dead time anymore, I can waste time browsing these forums in exactly the same way I do at home
I would never have one if I couldn’t charge at home, though. It’s marvellous waking up to 100% each morning. I’ll be staying EV for the foreseeable.
A lot of people make the EV decision all about cost, but it’s hard to justify like for like unless you’re doing mega miles or already buy cars new. I used to do 30k+ miles a year and the lease on my i3 was cheaper than my previous fuel bill alone, but as you drop the mileage it swings the other way quite quickly since electricity is such a cheap part of the overall running cost.
There are lots of other things I like:
- One pedal driving is very convenient, it’s hard going back. The i3 would brake to a stop on the accelerator pedal and the Kona uses radar to bring the car to a stop behind the car infront. Moving my foot left and right feels like a pain now and reserved only for when I’ve misjudged the situation.
- There’s no economy penalty for driving a more powerful car. Drive your 5L V8 to the shops and you get the fuel economy of a 5L V8. Drive a ludicrous Tesla to the shops and you get the economy of a Renault Zoe, perhaps better. There’s also no material change in cost for driving enthusatiscally as electricity is cheap.
- Servicing – when I was doing mega miles the variable service used to bong what felt like every few weeks. “Service due” take it for an oil service. 5 weeks later BONG – brake pads low, back to the dealer. 4 weeks later BONG – coolant time! The dealer saw me every couple of months (albeit not many people will have this issue as I was doing 35k miles p.a. at that point). My i3 needed a service every 2 years, unlimited mileage so it did 60k before it saw a workshop for the first time and the brake pads looked new as it barely used them. This isn’t just a cost thing, it’s a convenience thing. I don’t know what the service interval on the Kona is actually, I should check before it starts shouting at me.
- The Kona does c.250miles easy and my daily routine very rarely has me doing more than this these days, I’ll just charge it at home so it saves me trips I would otherwise need to make to get petrol. Even my regular longish journey of 200miles away I can just throw a lead out the window and charge it up overnight before going home, no stopping required.
- Instant torque/responsiveness. Even low powered EVs feel responsive and faster than they are on paper. Genuinely quick EVs are brutal, I’ll never forget my first Tesla experience!
If you genuinely do 900miles in a day, stop for 10mins, then drive 900miles home, then an EV isn’t for you. In the same way that you wouldn’t tow the family caravan once a year to France with your partner’s 1L Yaris, it isn’t the right tool for the job. But they can cope quite easily with an occasional long journey and it really doesn’t feel too painful, you just plan to eat food somewhere with a charger. It’s not like sitting in the car for 20mins is dead time anymore, I can waste time browsing these forums in exactly the same way I do at home
I would never have one if I couldn’t charge at home, though. It’s marvellous waking up to 100% each morning. I’ll be staying EV for the foreseeable.
I would agree regarding the interior quality of Tesla not quite being up to the similar premiums of. I went from a 997 to a M3P and the Porsche felt like a more solid car with better materials. Admittedly it’s not really comparing apples with apples but I don’t feel the materials inside would compete with a Audi S4 either. Saying that it’s very rapid, can fit the family in, cheap to run and a good laugh. You can drive spirited with a clean conscious (ish) regen/no noise and electric so not was wasteful as heavy breaking in an ICE
to compare a cayenne to a taycan though what is the price difference in looking new for both. Obviously coming from a used car it’s a big price difference but surely you would get similar moving from a 2-4 year old cayenne to a new cayenne. Not forgetting one of the big helpers to the man maths is the BIK rate which makes a large difference if you can lease/buy through company or salary sacrifice etc.
to compare a cayenne to a taycan though what is the price difference in looking new for both. Obviously coming from a used car it’s a big price difference but surely you would get similar moving from a 2-4 year old cayenne to a new cayenne. Not forgetting one of the big helpers to the man maths is the BIK rate which makes a large difference if you can lease/buy through company or salary sacrifice etc.
Soldato
Indeed that model S was really snappy infotainment but there was no hiding from the plasticky seats, centre console was a creaky mess with a battered sliding cover, the side console trim pieces weren’t aligned to to the console edge so you could see straight into the wrapped corner of the trim, and the cup holders didn’t hold! Pretty much most the parts creaked with light pressure Getting back into IPACE was another world interms of solidarity, finish and material choice.
Happy to have a start stop button back too, I don’t know what I was doing wrong in the Tesla but if you got straight in id be staring at a blank cluster waiting for the “T” to pop up and the instrument detail to arrive before I could shift to D.
Worked out the battery heating etc, seemed to want to heat up (48C!) then a couple squirts to be met with the fans going full chat and a massive de rate of the batteries. Absolutely incredible with launch control though, just like being on Rita queen of speed ride
Happy to have a start stop button back too, I don’t know what I was doing wrong in the Tesla but if you got straight in id be staring at a blank cluster waiting for the “T” to pop up and the instrument detail to arrive before I could shift to D.
Worked out the battery heating etc, seemed to want to heat up (48C!) then a couple squirts to be met with the fans going full chat and a massive de rate of the batteries. Absolutely incredible with launch control though, just like being on Rita queen of speed ride
I actually regret not getting a Model 3 SR+ when I could have back at the end of 2019, as it would have lost about £3k in two years (if we care about the TCO at all), if we are talking about more premium vehicles. Take a look on Autotrader at used SR+ prices to see what I mean, it would have cost almost nothing vs ICE of the same price, just in the fuel savings alone.
So is it a rip off if you lost so little vs. any other brand new car?
No those early EV have held their prices well but if you look at pcp or lease the assumption is that residual values on EV are going to be awful in years to come. I mean they are assuming a £90k Taycan will only be worth £30k in three years and 60k miles. I think they are wrong but unless using savings or HP, it makes EV very expensive compared to ICE.
It also means that any lease on these EV for business is a complete ripoff even though the BIK is minimal. Been looking at a lot of ICE/EV cars for people at work recently and we mainly lease our cars/vans. The upshot seems to be that any BIK savings is offset by the extra monthly lease cost. For a lot of people we could just get them an ICE and pay them the lease difference to cover their BIK and things would work out pretty even,
I am sure things will settle down and improve over the next couple of years esp as more and more choice comes out.
So far its been the Jaguar and the Audi which has almost got me to push the button on going EV.
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I don’t think it’s a problem with expected residuals, it’s more the case that lease companies are taking advantage of high demand (a product of incentives) and low supply. If you believe what the analysts say, the price gap between EV and ICE should be minimal at this point but it clearly isn’t.
Soldato
My Polestar had issues the other day where it decided not to work properly once doing an OTA. I pressed the button in the car to ask for assistance, I had someone at my door in 40mins whom booked me a hire car and booked me in to the local dealership.
The following morning I had a phone call to confirm what time was suitable for me and that they had assigned me a brand new Volvo V60.
I dropped the car and picked up my new Volvo, they then informed me I wouldn't have my car back that day but would keep me informed. The following day they called me welcoming me to drop off the Volvo and pick-up my car.
Happy days, update sorted and they really made sure I wasn't inconvenienced. They offered to drive my car to me if I was busy etc
The following morning I had a phone call to confirm what time was suitable for me and that they had assigned me a brand new Volvo V60.
I dropped the car and picked up my new Volvo, they then informed me I wouldn't have my car back that day but would keep me informed. The following day they called me welcoming me to drop off the Volvo and pick-up my car.
Happy days, update sorted and they really made sure I wasn't inconvenienced. They offered to drive my car to me if I was busy etc
Indeed it is but how much of that is A) only possible because of the relatively low number on the roads and B) to try and offset the issues people seem to be having with the OTA updates?^ That is how customer service should be done !
I can't imagine if Polestar become a mainstream brand that level of service would be sustainable. Even if it is I'd then be wondering just how much is lumped onto the cost of the car to allow for it.
I was wondering that the other day and it is a tricky one to gauge. Sat outside the motorway services looking at a bank of about 10 chargers, 3 of which were in use, you'd have to say the infrastructure is more than ample for the current demand. But then you look at the 100 or so cars in the car park and think OK, so how many of those would be wanting to top up if they were electric and you soon realise that the EV shift could massively outstrip the infrastructure with very little notice.
I'm honestly starting to think that by the time I transition to EV it will be like when Diesels became less rubbish. All of a sudden the choice between petrol and diesel simply became a "meh, whatever" to most people. The incentives will be a distant memory, the government will have found a way to plug any reduced revenue from ICE and applied it to EV. Yes I won't have to fuel up week to week but long journeys may now be more of a hassle... I can honestly see the net gain, in personal terms being basically zero.