When are you going fully electric?

[Sin_Chase]

On the contrary it's what I like about it. It's simply an electric version of the Mini, which to some is very appealing. The only downside is the poor range but it's a small town car so for many this is less of the issue it might be in something bigger.

I guess I'm picking more at the platform and compromises on a micro level rather than the overall aesthetics and the way the car drives/operates.

A lot of the benefits a BEV can bring are as a result of not having the ICE platform requirements. Lack of transmission and exhaust tunnels offering more cabin space as an example.

 

[Journey]

Lack of transmission and exhaust tunnels offering more cabin space as an example.

ID.3 is a good example of just how big a ground up EV can be inside, similar size to a Mini on the outside, way bigger on the inside, and also bigger than a Golf by far, closer to a Passat in fact.

 

[ICDP]

ID.3 is a good example of just how big a ground up EV can be inside, similar size to a Mini on the outside, way bigger on the inside, and also bigger than a Golf by far, closer to a Passat in fact.

So true and when I test drove an ID.4 and then a Q4 it was astonishing that both were similar for interior cabin space than my full fat E-Tron. They were also both considerably higher on efficiency and the only compromise was smaller boot space and no frunk, but neither are deal breakers.

 

[b0rn2sk8]

I guess I'm picking more at the platform and compromises on a micro level rather than the overall aesthetics and the way the car drives/operates.

A lot of the benefits a BEV can bring are as a result of not having the ICE platform requirements. Lack of transmission and exhaust tunnels offering more cabin space as an example.

I think it's fair to say that you'd get a much bigger battery in a ground up electric mini than you would a modified ICE platform and that's ultimately it's biggest drawback. The e208 is on a hybrid platform and that can squeeze in a 50kwh battery, the Zoe is another 52kwh small car. Granted both are ~15 cm longer than the mini but that doesn't equate to nearly 20kwh in battery capacity.

 

[Sin_Chase]

I think it's fair to say that you'd get a much bigger battery in a ground up electric mini than you would a modified ICE platform and that's ultimately it's biggest drawback. The e208 is on a hybrid platform and that can squeeze in a 50kwh battery, the Zoe is another 52kwh small car. Granted both are ~15 cm longer than the mini but that doesn't equate to nearly 20kwh in battery capacity.

Munro Live have a Mini EV on the ramps at present it seems. They've been a little critical of the design and packaging so far, specifically the battery mounting.

 

[b0rn2sk8]

Interesting home charge point changes incoming with support for blocks of flats, social and rental properties.

EDIT: Still watching, also includes support for small accommodation businesses/B&B's/Air BnB etc. for customers - interesting.

EDIT2: also support for commercial landlords - getting even more interesting...

 

[jpaul]

Lack of transmission and exhaust tunnels offering more cabin space as an example

ergh yes - so that gives a loss of structural rigidity from the skateboard design, too -

Interesting article/diagram on benefits of a transmission tunnel giving structural rigidity, model S 22KN/degree versus a honda civic 35,
https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads/model-y-road-noise-rumble-primary-cause.228313/
http://youwheel.com/home/2016/06/20/car-body-torsional-rigidity-a-comprehensive-list/

model Y reviews are critical in this respect, despite the forged alloy structures.

 

[Jonnycoupe]

ergh yes - so that gives a loss of structural rigidity from the skateboard design, too -

model Y reviews are critical in this respect, despite the forged alloy structures.

not really the bending performance of the floor is easily counteracted by the more substantial roof structure and pillars you tend to get in a BEV to deal with roof crush, especially in SUV body shape where the rails are taller, a Civic is also steel as being transverse FWD it doesn’t have a tunnel anyway. Then before you even consider the battery contribution there is a continuous structural section from sill to sill without the corruption of tunnel, improving side impact performance and even opportunity for weight saving by downgauging. So a BEV specific platform will tend to allow a wider battery and hence more capacity under floor as it protects the active material better.

The IPACE for example doesn’t suffer as you are trying to articulate, with 36kN/deg torsional stiffness and around 30Hz first mode performance from the body structure.

Not familiar with the units you measure “ergh” in though…

 

[jpaul]

not really the bending performance of the floor is easily counteracted by the more substantial roof structure and pillars you tend to get in a BEV to deal with roof crush,

why do you just quote from articles I link (we can all see what it says about Ipace) ? and try and argumentitively refute comments
model S and Y evidently have acknowledged weaknesses.

transmission tunnel is a euphemism - for central logitudanal reenforcement even if there is no prop, previous golfs/vauxhalls, like current bm I have, all had them.

 

[Jonnycoupe]

Quote? Flattered, I just wrote that from my skull.

Model S was teslas first mass production car and also aluminium, decent sections, poor execution and stiffness at the body nodes with a large boot opening and a transverse battery structure with limited longitudinal members. This is what the OEMs have licked, startups have to refine. Simple stuff really.

You don’t know IPACE aswell as I do, don’t use the phrase “we”.

EDIT: for clarity, I didn’t even read the articles linked.

 

[Sin_Chase]

ergh yes - so that gives a loss of structural rigidity from the skateboard design, too -

model Y reviews are critical in this respect, despite the forged alloy structures.

Other than Tesla go have a look at the body in white design for the Ford Mach-E (as an example). Significant reinforcement in these areas with a particular focus on mitigating against any perforation to the battery tray.

The reinforcement has to be significant owing to the small space between the battery tray and another vehicle or object in a side impact situation. Go look at some of the crash test data to see how well BEV platforms tend to perform in such a scenario.

 

[gailjon]

You don’t know IPACE aswell as I do, don’t use the phrase “we”.

Wow, that's close to being a patronising hissy fit.

 

[Jonnycoupe]

I know i even impressed myself

 

[gailjon]

It is quite satisfying at the moment driving past queues of numpties trying to get into the petrol stations. I hadno idea that so many people drove so far every day/week that they had to constantly fill up with fuel. EV driving is great.

 

[Simon]

It is quite satisfying at the moment driving past queues of numpties trying to get into the petrol stations. I hadno idea that so many people drove so far every day/week that they had to constantly fill up with fuel. EV driving is great.

Not sure why they are numpties but appreciate it must make you feel superior

 

[steve5424]

Not sure why they are numpties but appreciate it must make you feel superior

Well they are queueing to fill their tanks when there is no need at all to panic buy fuel. So yes they are numpties.

 

[Simon]

Well they are queueing to fill their tanks when there is no need at all to panic buy fuel. So yes they are numpties.

How do you know that they are panic buying. Maybe they are queuing as they just need fuel to get to work behind the people who want a full tank in their car to sit on the drive

 

[lordrobs]

Well they are queueing to fill their tanks when there is no need at all to panic buy fuel. So yes they are numpties.

Unless you are A) looking at their fuel gauge and B) know their driving itinerary for the next couple of days you have no idea if they are panic buying or not.

Now the vast majority of garages are closed normal sales are focussed on just those stations with fuel. Therefore this "normal" buying pattern we've been urged to maintain will continue to cause abnormal queues until we have the majority of forecourts open with all fuels again.

I must admit it would be nice to have an EV while these current issues are going on but I know I'd instantly think the opposite the first time I pulled up at a public charger and had to queue to charge.

 

[RoboCod]

It was a pain for us this last week because I'm away in Germany and I leave my partner at home with the kids and needing to get to nursery, shop, etc. I had to queue to fill her car up before I left since she was nearly on empty.

I've not felt smug passing the pumps in my EV though. If anything, I've passed by quite sheepishly thinking people must be glaring thinking "git!"

 

[gailjon]

ow do you know that they are panic buying. Maybe they are queuing as they just need fuel to get to work behind the people who want a full tank in their car to sit on the drive

Why would sales go up to 500% of their usual levels unless people were buying more fuel than they normally would and would normally use? Panic buying is the sign of a numpty. Think about the toilet rolls...