When are you going fully electric?

[jpaul]

So if you pick an E-tron as an EV be ready to hear people tell you how crap it is and how you should have bought a Tesla.

they are a big vehicles neighbours been trialling a 55 - do they have extended test drives (like vauxhall have advertise weekend trials), in comparison, other neighbours GLC looked small.
but as a 2nd hand proposition, their ability to charge quickly seems like it should have some repercussion on long term battery life; how do they do it ?
HPI april (discussing whole 2nd hand market drops of 2% feb&april) suggested they were in top 10 difficult to shift 2nd hand, not clear why.

 

[b0rn2sk8]

To be fair, I don’t think anyone is saying a Tesla is better built than anything other than a low end Audi.

There is no denying the etron/iPace is better build than any Tesla on sale here but it’s priced accordingly.

The base etron 55 is over £70k these days, the long range Model Y is £56k, you’d expect one to be better than the other in terms of quality.

I agree on the range point, the sweet spot for most people is 200 real world, in winter miles that can recharge quickly.

The above is what made standard range model 3 great package for the money, prior to them jacking up the price, it was probably the best bang for your buck in a BEV.

 

[ICDP]

You are both missing the point, much like most EV owners. This isn't about prices, because they could have easily been talking about an Enyaq, ID.4, Ioniq 5 or an EV6. He was pointing out that the Model Y was terrible to drive in comparison to other EVs. Yet many, many times we see people come back with a but.

- But it's not as efficient
- Tesla has more performance
- It takes 20 minutes longer to charge to 80% those once or twice a year you do long distance driving
- But the Tesla has better tech and over the air updates
- But it has no one pedal driving

It is about the fact the EV zealots value things the vast majority don't give a crap about. People just want a car that happens to be electric. Thankfully there are more and more EVs being released that look like a normal car and drive like a normal car and don't require people to become EV nerds. So they are far easier for people to transition to.

 

[chanjy]

To be fair, I don’t think anyone is saying a Tesla is better built than anything other than a low end Audi.

There is no denying the etron/iPace is better build than any Tesla on sale here but it’s priced accordingly.

The base etron 55 is over £70k these days, the long range Model Y is £56k, you’d expect one to be better than the other in terms of quality.

I agree on the range point, the sweet spot for most people is 200 real world, in winter miles that can recharge quickly.

The above is what made standard range model 3 great package for the money, prior to them jacking up the price, it was probably the best bang for your buck in a BEV.

Tesla don't discount and Audi still do even in the current parts shortage climate, so the price differential is a bit smaller but list price you are correct.

Model 3 also has a tolerable ride but they have **** the bed with the Y's suspension set up.

I'd take an RWD EV6 over the Model 3 though, due to not liking saloons and preferring a hatch, and it having a few more physical controls.

You are both missing the point, much like most EV owners. This isn't about prices, because they could have easily been talking about an Enyaq, ID.4, Ioniq 5 or an EV6. He was pointing out that the Model Y was terrible to drive in comparison to other EVs. Yet many, many times we see people come back with a but.

- But it's not as efficient
- Tesla has more performance
- It takes 20 minutes longer to charge to 80% those once or twice a year you do long distance driving
- But the Tesla has better tech and over the air updates
- But it has no one pedal driving

It is about the fact the EV zealots value things the vast majority don't give a crap about. People just want a car that happens to be electric. Thankfully there are more and more EVs being released that look like a normal car and drive like a normal car and don't require people to become EV nerds. So they are far easier for people to transition to.

The Tesla argument was always about long distance and how Tesla was the only realistic option for that with the Superchargers. Genuinely think those days are over though with the networks building out so fast.

 

[ICDP]

The Tesla argument was always about long distance and how Tesla was the only realistic option for that with the Superchargers. Genuinely think those days are over though with the networks building out so fast.

Very true, the infrastructure for EVs is improving massively for most (not all of the UK). Still a fair bit to go as more and more people go electric but the people who are going electric now, are looking for a car that happens to be electric.

 

[chanjy]

Very true, the infrastructure for EVs is improving massively for most (not all of the UK). Still a fair bit to go as more and more people go electric but the people who are going electric now, are looking for a car that happens to be electric.

Not so good in Norn Iron I hear

The difficult bits for rapid charging infrastructure are going to be rural areas with little passing traffic where the grid connection costs are also higher because of the remote nature of those places. I think eventually government is going to have to subsidise/underwrite a few like they do with fibre and 4G/5G. Let's see what they do with the rapid charging fund but that's focused on motorways and strategic roads.

 

[Jonnycoupe]

Wonder when we see the day jpaul shows any semblance of driving an EV than just churning stuff out.

He’s done in the reply, asked someone about how Audi might manage higher charging speed, yet his audience is a guy who says they don’t care for the EV details when considering a car

 

[Jonnycoupe]

Not so good in Norn Iron I hear

The difficult bits for rapid charging infrastructure are going to be rural areas with little passing traffic where the grid connection costs are also higher because of the remote nature of those places. I think eventually government is going to have to subsidise/underwrite a few like they do with fibre and 4G/5G.

It’s exactly why Tesla are opening up, able to the receive government money for HV connection from the grid to a non monopolised service.

 

[ICDP]

Not so good in Norn Iron I hear

The difficult bits for rapid charging infrastructure are going to be rural areas with little passing traffic where the grid connection costs are also higher because of the remote nature of those places. I think eventually government is going to have to subsidise/underwrite a few like they do with fibre and 4G/5G. Let's see what they do with the rapid charging fund but that's focused on motorways and strategic roads.

Nope, Norn Iron is terrible for EV infrastructure. Fastest "rapid" is 50kW and there are only a handful in the province and they are also free. So when you do actually need to charge they are almost guaranteed to be taken up by some freeloader who does not need a charge. I frequently say that the best thing about the charging infrastructure here is that N. Ireland is so small that most decent EVs have enough range they don't need to use it.

I don't mind the focus being on major motorways and strategic roads, as long as most rural towns get a few rapid chargers and some destination chargers at 11kW it will be fine. It also needs to be a fee for chargin to stop freeloaders hogging the few chargers that are available.

 

[ICDP]

It’s exactly why Tesla are opening up, able to the receive government money for HV connection from the grid to a non monopolised service.

Yeah, many Telsa owners are not happy that this USP is eroding. They don't get that Tesla are just as motivated by profits as any other company and obvioulsy it is more profitable for Tesla to open up their Supercharger Network to all EV owners. I think it access to grants and the fact that some of their sites are not utilised enough, so non Tesla = more profit.

 

[b0rn2sk8]

You are both missing the point, much like most EV owners. This isn't about prices, because they could have easily been talking about an Enyaq, ID.4, Ioniq 5 or an EV6. He was pointing out that the Model Y was terrible to drive in comparison to other EVs. Yet many, many times we see people come back with a but.

- But it's not as efficient
- Tesla has more performance
- It takes 20 minutes longer to charge to 80% those once or twice a year you do long distance driving
- But the Tesla has better tech and over the air updates
- But it has no one pedal driving

It is about the fact the EV zealots value things the vast majority don't give a crap about. People just want a car that happens to be electric. Thankfully there are more and more EVs being released that look like a normal car and drive like a normal car and don't require people to become EV nerds. So they are far easier for people to transition to.

I’m not sure if you were reply to me or not but I don’t think I’m missing the point at all. I said they offered a good package, particularly for the money I paid for mine. The package is everything considered, including the price and running costs.

I don’t think Tesla is standout in any area (perhaps other than drivetrain as you say)but their overall package was very compelling for the money they ask. Add on actual availability on top of that and it’s not surprising people buy them in their droves. I do think the pricing is getting a bit out of whack but that’s the case across the board.

I completely agree that other cars at similar price points have better aspects, but others are worse. It’s just depends on what your priorities and preferences are. I didn’t want a big crossover/SUV if I could help it so that limited my options somewhat.

Your right in the Tesla network though, they are not some benevolent car manufacturer, they are driven by profit and opening up gets them more profit. My only issue with them opening up that that they have known about doing it for a long time and yet continue to install chargers that are just not fit for purpose for anything other than a Tesla.

To be honest, I’m not particularly worried about who provides the charging, as long as there are plenty of them and they are fast. I use the tesla network because it’s easy and where it’s convenient but I wouldn’t go out of my way to use it and regularly use others that are more convenient.

Rapids get all the glory but it’s my view that the ubiquitous availability of 7kw chargers is as or potentially even more important and would keep people off rapids unless they actually needed them.

 

[ICDP]

I’m not sure if you were reply to me or not but I don’t think I’m missing the point at all. I said they offered a good package, particularly for the money I paid for mine. The package is everything considered, including the price and running costs.

I don’t think Tesla is standout in any area (perhaps other than drivetrain as you say)but their overall package was very compelling for the money they ask. Add on actual availability on top of that and it’s not surprising people buy them in their droves. I do think the pricing is getting a bit out of whack but that’s the case across the board.

I completely agree that other cars at similar price points have better aspects, but others are worse. It’s just depends on what your priorities and preferences are. I didn’t want a big crossover/SUV if I could help it so that limited my options somewhat.

Your right in the Tesla network though, they are not some benevolent car manufacturer, they are driven by profit and opening up gets them more profit. My only issue with them opening up that that they have known about doing it for a long time and yet continue to install chargers that are just not fit for purpose for anything other than a Tesla.

To be honest, I’m not particularly worried about who provides the charging, as long as there are plenty of them and they are fast. I use the tesla network because it’s easy and where it’s convenient but I wouldn’t go out of my way to use it and regularly use others that are more convenient.

Rapids get all the glory but it’s my view that the ubiquitous availability of 7kw chargers is as or potentially even more important and would keep people off rapids unless they actually needed them.

My reply was in part to help clarify that focusing on the prices was not his point but that the majority of people simply want a nice car that happens to be electric.

 

[jpaul]

got to keep you happy Johnny, not one for for tesla recidivists, but BMW i4 from Tesla owners perspective

off the back of this thread Former Tesla Model 3 Owner's Thoughts on i4 M50
- seems the i50 edrive versus model3 sr are more like price parity in USA and sweden,
- hadn't considered this
The i4 M50 weighs more because it has, adaptive dampers, air suspension, a better build, sunroof, heavy hatch, and real seating, a real dash, etc. BMW didn't dump what a car should be for profit.
...
So add the cost of a wrap to a car that has already given up it's price advantage.
- interesting discussion on the self drive technology/sensors of them both.

haven't seen one on Cambridge roads yet

 

[FerretBoy]

I've been watching the M50 as more competition is good for everyone.

I think the 40 is the better choice though. I don't really get what they are trying to do with the M50, it's just too heavy to be a fun drive. Every video shows that nice rear air suspension causes issues at the font under heavy acceleration too.

 

[Tinders]

For those of you with company cars, how is your company reimbursing you for Fuel. I see HMRC AFR is still only 5p, which means unless you are on a EV only electricity tariff at home, every business journey could be costing you money (ignoring the BIK savings of course).

 

[{SAS}TB]

For those of you with company cars, how is your company reimbursing you for Fuel. I see HMRC AFR is still only 5p, which means unless you are on a EV only electricity tariff at home, every business journey could be costing you money (ignoring the BIK savings of course).

I take a car allowance and get 13p/mile currently

My employer has taken the pragmatic view that it is, in reality, similar to a diesel car in terms of cost and taken the mid HMRC rate for diesels

I can, like everyone else, claim back the VAT on the difference between that and 45p/mile on Self Assesment submission

 

[Greebo]

I take a car allowance and get 13p/mile currently

My employer has taken the pragmatic view that it is, in reality, similar to a diesel car in terms of cost and taken the mid HMRC rate for diesels

I can, like everyone else, claim back the VAT on the difference between that and 45p/mile on Self Assesment submission

Wont you get taxed on the difference between 13p and HMRC's guide of 5p per mile? Unless your costs are actually 13p per mile?

 

[{SAS}TB]

No.

It's an expense - the HMRC guide is a guide

 

[Greebo]

No.

It's an expense - the HMRC guide is a guide

i thought with ICE car mileage that if you got paid over the HMRC guidance then you got taxed on the extra (unless you could show it match your actual costs)?

Is it different with EV mileage? HMRC website doesnt seem to differentiate

Reimburse employees for company car business travel​

If the mileage rate you pay is no higher than the advisory fuel rates for the engine size and fuel type of the company car, there will be no taxable profit and no Class 1A National Insurance to pay.

If your cars are more fuel efficient, or if the cost of business travel is higher than the guideline rates, you can use your own rates to reflect your situation.

If you pay rates that are higher than the advisory rates but cannot show the fuel cost per mile is higher, there will be no fuel benefit charge if the mileage payments are only for business travel. Instead, you’ll have to treat any excess as taxable profit and as earnings for Class 1 National Insurance purposes

So i have always understood that your employee could pay you anything they want per mile (I used to have a mate who got 50p per mile and didn't reduce after 10,000 miles but he got taxed on the extra above the HMRC guide rates) but you would be taxed on the "extra" unless you could prove that the extra only covered your actual costs.

 

[{SAS}TB]

My understanding (although I'm mo accountant or tax expert) is you're only taxed in anything over the 45p mile (for first 10k miles) then it drops over the 10k mile threshold

That's the "bar" for tax the other guidance rates are just that