When are you going fully electric?

Soldato
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There’s no reduction in performance (i.e horsepower) as the car ages.

intuitively you would expect there to be and, when I made the comment, I wondered if it had been measured on cars,
so I'd like to see someone who has checked their 0-60mph at 60K miles versus infancy

googling a bit on battery chemistry you can see articles like this, which discuss irreversible increase in cell resistance, caused by heat (as would occur with rapid discharge/acceleration) which, won't reduce the capacity, but will mean the maximum sustained current the cell can deliver (ie torque/amps) declines.

https://www.nature.com/articles/srep12967
Overview of the temperature effect on aging rates
From the above analysis, it was found that higher temperature will increase the degradation rates of all the components in a LiB and this is consistence with the work of Thomas et al.10.Careful examination of the Tables inserted in the Figures that show the degradation as a percentage of each component in a LiB reveals that temperature has the largest impact on the degradation rate of the Warburg element with cycling and followed by the cell impedance. The degradation rate of the charge transfer rate is less impacted by the operating temperature for the temperature operating range considered here.

As the operating temperature of LiB changes from 25 to 55 °C, the degradation rate of maximum charge storage after 260 cycles is found to increase from 4.22% to 13.24%. At the component level, for the same change in the operating temperature, the degradation rate of the Warburg element resistance after 260 cycles increases from 49.40% and 584.07% (Fig. 10) which is the highest change; and that for the cell impedance ranks second, increasing from 33.64% to 93.29% (Fig. 8). As for the charge transfer rate, the change in its degradation rate decreases from 68.64% to 56.19% (Fig. 7).

or (now I understand teminology/what i'm looking for)
https://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/rising_internal_resistance

Capacity alone is of limited use if the pack cannot deliver the stored energy effectively; a battery also needs low internal resistance. Measured in milliohms (mΩ), resistance is the gatekeeper of the battery; the lower the resistance, the less restriction the pack encounters. This is especially important in heavy loads such as power tools and electric powertrains. High resistance causes the battery to heat up and the voltage to drop under load, triggering an early shutdown. Figure 1 illustrates a battery with low internal resistance in the form of a free-flowing tap against a battery with elevated resistance in which the tap is restricted.
 
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What? Solid state batteries NOW?
Does it matter if the battery is described as solid state or not, as long as your requirements are met?

“Solid State” is the excuse some legacy manufacturers are using in order to make people think there is some massive revelation coming and they should just buy an ICE for now. Roughly translated as “we haven’t made an EV, please buy our 20th century tech”
 
Soldato
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That’s V2G though. Don’t confuse the two :) exporting power back to the national grid is quite a different system!

I know, but it is the end game and the most useful version of V2X. V2L is just a posh name for an inverter.

Having a massive inverter in the car is useful for some but I expect the vast majority of people its a might use it once in a blue moon. I doubt many would actually spec it if it was an optional extra and I can't see why car makers wouldn't make it an optional extra because its one of those things that sound good and they could charge money for it.

V2G is just much more useful and basically negates the need for a dedicated home battery.
 
Soldato
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Does it matter if the battery is described as solid state or not, as long as your requirements are met?

“Solid State” is the excuse some legacy manufacturers are using in order to make people think there is some massive revelation coming and they should just buy an ICE for now. Roughly translated as “we haven’t made an EV, please buy our 20th century tech”

legacy? That’s the new phrase for manufacturers understand the product well enough not to throttle charge speeds later yeah?
 
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legacy? That’s the new phrase for manufacturers understand the product well enough not to throttle charge speeds later yeah?

Legacy meaning they aren’t making any EVs yet claiming it’s because they have amazing tech “just a few years away” (it is always just a few years away).

The reality being they need to sell combustion vehicles because they don’t make anything else.
 
Soldato
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The version of the Cupra Born which you actually want will be north of £35k, I think the ID.3 options out to £40k+ so I can't see the 'hot' version being any less.
 
Soldato
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Yeah this is what I fear. 40k for a warm hatch, will see how it pans out.

Pretty sure they could make them much warmer too, but they don't want to make them too good, otherwise they'll stop selling the super high margin GTI's, VRs, and all that kinda thing. I am sure one day one of the larger incumbents will realise that some people might want a performance EV, not just a family wagon or a city car. The only car I can remotely think of that is sporty, fast, drives well, and is a BEV from the incumbents is the iPace, and that is Jag's only BEV across both brands.
 
Soldato
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Went to the new Rugby services after visiting family in Birmingham today, holly heck, the car went straight up to drawing 100kW, and had gone from 20-70% in the time it took us to go in, grab some food have a quick bite to eat and hit the road again!
 
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Pretty sure they could make them much warmer too, but they don't want to make them too good, otherwise they'll stop selling the super high margin GTI's, VRs, and all that kinda thing. I am sure one day one of the larger incumbents will realise that some people might want a performance EV, not just a family wagon or a city car. The only car I can remotely think of that is sporty, fast, drives well, and is a BEV from the incumbents is the iPace, and that is Jag's only BEV across both brands.

Guess they will have to eventually!
 
Soldato
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article on just this analysis - 50bhp models s power loss at 100k
https://insideevs.com/news/387063/video-race-tesla-model-3-100k-model-s/

so if you are buying a used ev looks like you should test the quarter mile time.

TL:DW I know the model S is quite sensitive for temps, for ludicrous+ battery temp was 47-48C and could take an hour to get to that state. The performance in my experience varied more than my Jaguar based on operating in non ideal conditions like that. Did they go into that level of detail?
 
Soldato
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Did they go into that level of detail?

watch the video - there's some objectvity but the premise that a 100K miles ev won't deliver the same sustained acceleration/power has legs - follow the science as Boris would say.


Yeah this is what I fear. 40k for a warm hatch, will see how it pans out.
who is winning the power/weight ratio at the moment, in a reasonably priced bev ... just writing the next top gear series
 
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