When the Gpu's prices will go down ?

[muon]

I’m making no claims at all, I’m simply correcting your nonsensical claim that Nvidia somehow single-handedly brought cheaper PC graphics cards to the masses.

S3
3DFX
Matrox
Diamond Multimedia

Just some of the names that were well known for decent and not expensive graphics cards among early PC enthusiasts.

You replied to a post about me talking about the early 90s. You even mentioned they were expensive professional cards, I don't refute that, never said anything different. So well done on the pivot.

At no point did I say they single handedly brought cheaper graphics cards to the masses.

Any more nonsense you gonna claim I said?

Notice however, none of those companies are really still around. So who do you think had the biggest impact? The anti-nvidia bias in this thread is so bad, it's almost funny. Why are people in so much denial.

 

[Grim5]

I was just looking at the history of 3dfx and one of the reasons at the time it couldn't get OEM support was because OEM's at the time were only interested in hardware that was going to be refreshed on a 6month cycle as the OEMs were looking to market and sell new lineups of pre built PCs every 6 months.

How times have changed, where now we wait 2 years for new hardware

 

[muon]

I was just looking at the history of 3dfx and one of the reasons at the time it couldn't get OEM support was because OEM's at the time were only interested in hardware that was going to be refreshed on a 6month cycle as the OEMs were looking to market and sell new lineups of pre built PCs every 6 months.

How times have changed, where now we wait 2 years for new hardware

Technology was moving so rapidly at the time to be fair. Moore's law was at it's peak (edit: actually don't know if that's an entirely fair statement looking at the history of nodes), and advances were massive, so I can understand the point of view of OEMs. It's like smartphones, or any new tech, the speed at which they progressed initially was ridiculous.

 

[TNA]

No card is ever worth silly money and that kind of mentality which started with the Titan got us into this mess.

Yeah, well unfortunately Jensen needs to keep buying better and better leather jackets. I would rather people who are happy to buy at silly prices be milked rather than everyone.

I mean I would rather many more things in this world, but let’s be a bit realistic at least.

 

[TNA]

Well keep banging your head against the wall I guess and see how much difference the dent makes.

Like I said, the reality is this stuff is outright expensive, it always has been expensive, and it will always go on to be expensive. This is inevitably the case when you are dealing with products that only a handful of companies in the world are able to design and manufacturer to compete at this level.

There is absolutely a level of movement within these prices, that’s why already the 4070 has seen some flux so imminently from launch. But it’s not easy for there to be a disrupter all of a sudden and for the landscape to be shook up.

Agreed. We all want cheaper prices, but let’s be realistic about it all. My thoughts are let the people who do not mind paying for all that extra r&d and profit pay for it and offer everyone else sensible options like they have done before. I felt like the 1070 and 3080 were great options. 4070 at £600, not so much. That card should be £399 really and be called 4060Ti.

 

[Jimmy Weirdarms]

I felt like the 1070 and 3080 were great options

If you could find a 3080! Sure, the launch price was reasonable but the mining demand and pandemic made them unavailable and that clearly just went to nvidia's head and now here we are.
I'm still rocking a 1070Ti in my work machine, a 2070S in my partner's computer and a 2080Ti in our other box (a cheap one that was a company expense anyway). I put off trying to upgrade during the pandemic because the prices were nuts and honestly, I don't need to be upgrading every single generation and now the new normal seems equally insane.

BUT on the continuing theme of "when price go down", it looks like I just missed a deal from a small vendor here in Western Australia at AUD999 for a 4070 Ti - that's 530 quid to you! Though the normal prices are a good 100 quid more, where deals lead general pricing seems to follow. So it is starting to look like reasonable prices might be achievable this generation over here at least.

 

[Murphy]

Well keep banging your head against the wall I guess and see how much difference the dent makes.

Like I said, the reality is this stuff is outright expensive, it always has been expensive, and it will always go on to be expensive. This is inevitably the case when you are dealing with products that only a handful of companies in the world are able to design and manufacturer to compete at this level.

There is absolutely a level of movement within these prices, that’s why already the 4070 has seen some flux so imminently from launch. But it’s not easy for there to be a disrupter all of a sudden and for the landscape to be shook up.

There's no banging heads against walls and it's already making a difference because as we've seen in the last year prices are slowly falling back to what would be considered more normal, if it wasn't for numpties and apologists like yourself that would've probably happened much sooner and much quicker.

It's supply and demand 101, if the demand for a good or service is higher than the supply, prices are likely to rise and visa versa. It has nothing to do with how expensive something is to make because if it's too expensive to make then the demand isn't going to be there to make it worth making in the first place.

One could argue, cars aren't 10x the size they used to be though. They are however significantly more advanced and complex as you've said. GPU chips today are up to 10x larger (die area) whilst also significantly more advanced and complex (packing in orders of magnitude more transistors for the same area, i.e. moore's law).

They're only more complex by a small amount, they still use transistors. Just because they're smaller and designed slightly differently it doesn't make them that much more complex, heck i could draw one on a piece of paper.

 

[Calin Banc]

Cars are also infinitely more complex to design and build now than they’ve ever been and use software that didn't even exist back then but for some reason you can still buy a new Ford for basically the same price, adjusted for inflation, as their very first car.

TBH I'm really not sure why this 'the new thing is better so it must cost more' comes from, that's simply not how capitalism or advancements work. If you can't make something better for the same or less money then someone else will and you'll find yourself out of business, plus everything humans do is an iterative process, we all stand on the shoulders of giants. Yes things are way more complex than they used to be but we've not gone from no understanding of something to infinitely more complex overnight.

Honestly i despair at how someone people seem to actually want to be taken advantage of.

Exactly. Advancements in technology and VOLUME sales should overcome a lot, even inflation to some point. It reminds me how the excuse of one crisis or another appeared when prices went up (in other sectors) only to see after companies making huge profits, way above any possible increase due to the original "excuse". And yet, some are defending anticonsumer practices constantly like they're not consumers themselves. Who knows, maybe, at least some, aren't.

 

[Aliexpress]

Still running a 1070 from years back, hopefully a 16gb minimum 1440p card will drop soon.

 

[TNA]

If you could find a 3080! Sure, the launch price was reasonable but the mining demand and pandemic made them unavailable and that clearly just went to nvidia's head and now here we are.
I'm still rocking a 1070Ti in my work machine, a 2070S in my partner's computer and a 2080Ti in our other box (a cheap one that was a company expense anyway). I put off trying to upgrade during the pandemic because the prices were nuts and honestly, I don't need to be upgrading every single generation and now the new normal seems equally insane.

BUT on the continuing theme of "when price go down", it looks like I just missed a deal from a small vendor here in Western Australia at AUD999 for a 4070 Ti - that's 530 quid to you! Though the normal prices are a good 100 quid more, where deals lead general pricing seems to follow. So it is starting to look like reasonable prices might be achievable this generation over here at least.

I managed to get a 3080 FE so for me it was a good option

 

[Joxeon]

I disagree. I think ~30% from one gen to the next is decent and the 4080 does that.

The performance is there. The price, however, is an insult.

Every gpu would be good at a certain price but the 4080 is priced at £1200 and cards priced around this mark have always delivered at least a 30% performance increase over the previous gen halo card yet the 4080 delivers just 18%.

Nvidia set the price and you can only rate performance based on that, sure if it was £700 then the amount of performance it delivers would be fine but at £1200 it’s totally rubbish which is why it’s a shelf filler.

 

[TNA]

Exactly. Advancements in technology and VOLUME sales should overcome a lot, even inflation to some point. It reminds me how the excuse of one crisis or another appeared when prices went up (in other sectors) only to see after companies making huge profits, way above any possible increase due to the original "excuse". And yet, some are defending anticonsumer practices constantly like they're not consumers themselves. Who knows, maybe, at least some, aren't.

Yep. Volume definitely makes a huge difference. I am not sure if he is trying to excuse the high prices, but just being realistic that there is no point comparing to 20 years ago.

For me personally I am somewhere in the middle of all this and try to be realistic. We won’t be getting top tier performance like Radeon 4870 for $299 anymore for example. Those days are gone. But could they be selling the 4070 for £399 and still be making a profit? I bet they could! The rest is just greed and wanting huge margins.

 

[Joxeon]

Agreed. We all want cheaper prices, but let’s be realistic about it all. My thoughts are let the people who do not mind paying for all that extra r&d and profit pay for it and offer everyone else sensible options like they have done before. I felt like the 1070 and 3080 were great options. 4070 at £600, not so much. That card should be £399 really and be called 4060Ti.

You’re actually paying more per CUDA for the 4070 than a 4090 and it’s the same for all the other 4000 series so lower end buyers are now subsidising 4090 buyers now especially when you look at the percentage price increase for every card with the 4090 only seeing a 7% mark up with the rest of the cards ranging from 20-72%.

 

[TNA]

You’re actually paying more per CUDA for the 4070 than a 4090 and it’s the same for all the other 4000 series so lower end buyers are now subsidising 4090 buyers now especially when you look at the percentage price increase for every card with the 4090 only seeing a 7% mark up with the rest of the cards ranging from 20-72%.

That is why I am saying it should be £399

 

[Raelgun]

Every gpu would be good at a certain price but the 4080 is priced at £1200 and cards priced around this mark have always delivered at least a 30% performance increase over the previous gen halo card yet the 4080 delivers just 18%.

Nvidia set the price and you can only rate performance based on that, sure if it was £700 then the amount of performance it delivers would be fine but at £1200 it’s totally rubbish which is why it’s a shelf filler.

Wait, the only time we had gaming GPUs priced this was the 3090.

£1200 prices were exotic products like dual chips on a single board.

The conditioning is unreal

 

[rare]

They're only more complex by a small amount, they still use transistors. Just because they're smaller and designed slightly differently it doesn't make them that much more complex, heck i could draw one on a piece of paper.

Riva 128 had 3.5 million transistors, a 4090 has 76,300 million.

Good luck drawing that on a piece of paper.

am not sure if he is trying to excuse the high prices, but just being realistic that there is no point comparing to 20 years ago.

Exactly. Just like there’s not much point comparing a model T price to a modern car, yes they both have four wheels but the reality is it’s too far removed in every way to make any reasonable comparison. I already stated I think prices are too high, but that there is a much greater level of complexity to these products than there was 20-25 years ago. Not to mention that the level of competition has reduced because there’s only a handful of companies now, back then at least you had a few more.

Obviously Nvidia have to react to market pressures, but to an extent they can charge pretty much what they believe their product is worth, which is what they’ve been doing because there is in effect zero competition in the market and likely won’t be anytime soon.

 

[Murphy]

Can you count?

 

[rare]

Can you count?

Why not just engage in conversation in good faith without sarcastic comments and laughing emojis? It’s so boring.

 

[Jono8]

Even at £600 I wouldn't consider the 4070ti a particularly good deal. 17% faster than my 2.5 year 3080 at a 50 quid discount isn't exactly game changing.

Well, considering inflation on the 3070 price would take it over £550, and that the 4070ti performance should have been the 4070 performance (ie matching/slightly beating the 3090ti), it isnt far off.

Essentially, taking inflation and exchange rates into account and considering past performance gains among the stack of cards, we should ideally be getting a 4070ti for between £550 and £600.

 

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

Well, considering inflation on the 3070 price would take it over £550, and that the 4070ti performance should have been the 4070 performance (ie matching/slightly beating the 3090ti), it isnt far off.

Essentially, taking inflation and exchange rates into account and considering past performance gains among the stack of cards, we should ideally be getting a 4070ti for between £550 and £600.

Well considering the RTX4070TI is really an RTX3060 class die, even £600 would be a nice increase for Nvidia.