Soldato
I think you'll find it was poorly optimised by lazy devs.
Yea I'm finding lots of those game whilst using my 3070.....
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When the Gpu's prices will go down ?
- Thread starter sys6em
- Start date
Yea I'm finding lots of those game whilst using my 3070.....
All the more puzzling as to why AMD are not taking the opportunity to increase their market share in the pc gamers market by pricing their cards properly imo.
Soldato
Yea this baffles me as well, seems they have a good opportunity now with Nvidia pricing themselves out.
Because Sheep and it seems Uncle Jensen will always be in charge. It's almost like she wants to follow rather than lead. Probs too tied up in the CPU market as well.
I do wonder if AMD didn't make CPU's, how they would be competing in the GPU market.
Feels sad really, back in the day when ATI was pretty glorious and was actual real competition.
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Soldato
- Joined
- 21 Jan 2010
- Posts
- 3,680
Chiming in as a mainstream pc gamer.
When mid-range is £500 plus, I have a problem.
I got a 3060ti fe back in 2021, as a replacement for a gtx970. That 3060 cost me close to double what I would normally want to pay, but I got a decent amount of money for my gtx970 second-hand.
I generally skip at least one generation, due to value for money.
I can't see me buying in for at least two generations, given how pricing has gone. I don't see any value in this generation for me. If prices remain this high, there is little to suggest the next gen will be a compelling upgrade.
Also, graphical improvements have plateaued- ray tracing was slightly underwhelming, and had an unacceptable performance hit, for example.
It's pretty likely that, at some point, console will become the only reasonable route for me and a lot of other people like me.
When a new graphics card costs me £500, I am probably out of this.
When mid-range is £500 plus, I have a problem.
I got a 3060ti fe back in 2021, as a replacement for a gtx970. That 3060 cost me close to double what I would normally want to pay, but I got a decent amount of money for my gtx970 second-hand.
I generally skip at least one generation, due to value for money.
I can't see me buying in for at least two generations, given how pricing has gone. I don't see any value in this generation for me. If prices remain this high, there is little to suggest the next gen will be a compelling upgrade.
Also, graphical improvements have plateaued- ray tracing was slightly underwhelming, and had an unacceptable performance hit, for example.
It's pretty likely that, at some point, console will become the only reasonable route for me and a lot of other people like me.
When a new graphics card costs me £500, I am probably out of this.
Caporegime
Another Marketing Disaster is apt!
Soldato
That's the million-dollar question. Why has AMD not taken advantage of this situation?
I don't think it's at all clear what either company is thinking, but AMD has a clear advantage, if only they would make the best of it. It takes a special kind of stupid to fumble the ball when NVIDIA is acting like a self-entitled diva.
Hey, it's family, you don't want to hurt them.
Caporegime
Because its quite clear both companies made too much for miners,and are trying to sell off their old stock for minimal discounts. Then are trying to see if they can normalise Pandemic pricing at a higher level to make margins as high as possible.
They are more worried about spinning margins to shareholders. If you have to drop prices,even if you got more sales and more revenue, the shareholders care more about margins and it will cause a bigger decrease when you have to deep discount. It's speculation on margins which they care about.
This is why in the technology market and numerous other markets,many Western companies don't care if they cede large,but profitable,lower margin markets to China,etc. It was how Japanese car companies ended up taking marketshare 40 years ago.
This is why AMD made statements they didn't want to be seen as the "budget brand" or whatever it is.
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Yet you still get people loving AMD and going on like they are our best friend or something. I find it cringey the way people stretch so much to defend them. Somehow it has stuck that Nvidia are the bad guys and AMD the good in these individuals. There is no good. They just care about their shareholders.
Caporegime
I think the thing is Nvidia has done some right shady things historically,and the way these were handled were interesting. The same as Intel. But unlike Intel,Nvidia has gotten away with a lot of things too,like bumpgate and more than AMD/Intel could get away with IMHO because they have marketing which is amazing. Even Intel had to spend billions in replacing dodgy Sandy Bridge chipsets proactively.
So AMD ended up being the "lesser" of many evils,but it doesn't mean they haven't done dodgy moves.
AMD priced to Intel levels with the Athlon 64,and played games with their platforms(socket 939,754,etc). I warned people abut this with Zen after "we are not a budget brand" level statements.
When Zen3 came along,they priced the CPUs per core higher than Intel and people defended it and I argued with so many here. They removed the excellent stock coolers,just like Intel.
Tried pointing there were good deals on Intel CPUs,but people were willing to pay £200 for a Ryzen 5 3600.Madness. My £100 Core i5 10400 and a £65 mini-ITX motherboard in my other rig ended up being a great value purchase....for less than the cost of a Ryzen 5 3600.
I told them Zen4 and the next Intel CPUs would cost even more at launch....and it happened.
I also got into arguments in the CPU section,when they tried to block Zen3 CPUs from B450/X470 motherboards. Then they made sure they removed PCI-E 4.0 from 400 series motherboards,which annoyed me even more. Again I said wait and see what happens next.
With AM5,they split B650 into B650 and B650E,meaning cheaper Intel motherboards had PCI-E 5.0,etc and people were fine with this. Plus the AM5 mini-ITX motherboards cost so much,at this rate I might end up going back to Intel again when I look for an upgrade.
On the dGPU side,at least Nvidia made sure you could get some models here at RRP - AMD CBA releasing RRP models in the UK. Some here were trying to spin that too.
With dGPUs,people forgot the RX5700XT was originally an RX690. AMD jacked the pricing of it up,since Nvidia did the same with Turing,ie,the RTX2070(which really should have been an RTX2060 series dGPU). Then when the Pandemic came along,the RX6600 series were awfully priced like the RTX3060 series.
With Navi 31,it isn't a true Navi 21 replacement. IMHO,it's something between a Navi 22 and Navi 21 replacement. Yet,the RX7900XT which should have been an RX7800 series dGPU of some sort was pushed one tier up as an RX7900XT. But because Nvidia did another Turing move,they took advantage.
The only "good" thing this generation is they started dropping prices on the RX6600 series quicker than Nvidia did with the RTX3050/RTX3060. But still no RX7700XT or RX7800XT series,and even those I think will be boring releases.
At this point,I hope the stock of their new releases stay on the shelves. I will only be buying something if I get a good deal. If I don't I will just play some older games.
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Advantage how? I've been trying to think of what the advantage is of increasing market share and maybe I'm just not getting it but i can't think of any.
I think one can only give a company so much credit for past behaviour. Yes, historically AMD have not been as bad, hell they were what I would even call good for a long period of time and I rewarded them by buying AMD exclusively for almost a decade. But those days are gone.
Time to judge them on here and now. They did a decent job with the 6000 series and had they come in being competitive and putting more effort into FSR I would have a 7800 XTX (they went and named it 7900 XTX and tried to milk people because of the 4080 being prices so stupid) and would be signing their praises. But nope, they wanted to be greedy like Nvidia and instead of putting the money into improving FSR and making people see there is no need for DLSS they seem to be paying devs to keep DLSS out of games.
That is just the way I see it and I am no fan of Nvidia.
Caporegime
I just went on price/performance for the last 20 years.
If AMD offers it I buy their products. If Intel or Nvidia offers it I buy theirs.
If all want to be a cartel,then as long as my PC is working and reasonably up to date I can just avoid newer games which don't run well until I can find a good deal. Or if it gets so bad,I might even get a console if it goes that way.
I don't exist to prop any of them up and there are enough things to spend money on. For example,I spent some of my upgrade budget on a new lens for my camera. Had far more fun with that so far,then making a game look a bit shinier.
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Not to mention you probably have just as much fun bashing them on here for their silly pricing
Caporegime
Not to mention you probably have just as much fun bashing them on here for their silly pricing
Its a big issue with gaming in general now - I was looking at buying D4,but I looked at the pricing at walked away. Nearly £100 for the full version,plus paid battlepass,microtransactions,etc.
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A significantly higher throughput of sales at a slightly lower margin would equate to higher overall revenue. Perhaps also some incidental branch affinity from buyers. Also, depending on manufacturing levels, it'll move stock which is a business liability.
Caporegime
The thing is though look at some of the data I linked to which showed Nvidia had billions of USD in unsold stock and parts earlier in the year.
Even for Nvidia it makes no sense either,especially consumer dGPU sales are terrible overall.
As I said it's because the stock market is obsessed with margins,and margin growth(or even slower margin decline). Even with Subprime it was the same issue,which lead to risky things being done.
After all why have Western tech companies handed the profitable mainstream and entry level phone markets to China? It's how Japanese car companies got to where they are. Western car companies were more concerned with higher level markets,so sold trash at the lower end.
It's also why so many manufacturing jobs moved abroad. It's not that you can't make things profitable enough over here,it's that you can't push high margin growth YoY doing it here.
It's also the reason why seemingly profitable companies,try squeeze the pay of employees. It's all about margins in the short term.
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Part of this must be their massive mis-judgement to have gone chiplet with both Navi 31 and Navi 32. The later is still MIA but rumours were always that it would be chiplet.
A far saner, safer risks contained thing would have been:
Navi 30 - huge 500mm² plus GCD selling at a halo price
Navi 31 - 5nm monolith, maybe 450mm² selling at the 6800/6800 XT/ 6900 XT prices
Navi 32 - 5nm monolith, maybe 350mm² selling at the old 6700 XT prices
Navi 33 - 6nm monolith. As is or may a bit larger to offer an actual improvement on 6650 XT.
Instead, it is almost like some engineer went "hey we've cracked GPU chiplets, let's show off".
AMD are certainly not our friends but there is "no good" and there is Nvidia.
Think of any possible bad anti consumer move and Nvidia have probably written the textbook on it. Bumpgate was them being chancers by not standing by their products but at least choosing the wrong solder wasn't done on purpose. (But that made little difference to the millions of people affected.)
It is all the other shady things they did when the started, when it was only two left standing (so them and ATI) by cheating until caught, but software lock-in and sponsored nonsense like the excess tessellation, by starting paid shills in social media, by leaking stuff about competing stuff and spreading it like crazy (Hawaii is still remembered for the poor stock cooler to this day - everyone has forgotten it that little 430mm² decisively beat the 560mm² GK110).
I don't like it when AMD starts playing dirty with sponsorship etc., but it is important to remember who started this stuff. It's like the age "all politician are crocked and liars" - but if you vote for a proven crock and liar expect to be more than entertained!
Caporegime
@KompuKare A bit like with HBM,where they tried to show off instead of leveraging it properly! No point using chiplets unless it gives an actual advantage in the products.
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