Haha, good one
They have left wing economic policies and authoritarian social policies. That's classic socialism by definition.
when was the class system removed?
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They have left wing economic policies and authoritarian social policies. That's classic socialism by definition.
Soldato
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Well its a discussion, Most things never arise, you can still imagine it, or is that beyond you?
You can ignore actively killing them, you can instead choose half the population to go into safety, but you would have still killed them by condemming them to death... The main point is, do you take names out of a hat, or do you sit down and think who to save? (bare in mind, If you choose who you save, then you choose who you kill, so its a matter of perspective do you really not see how obvious that is?, You choose 500million out of 1billion to save, you might aswell strangle the other 500million yourself it would be the same)
There are only two options, people are equal or they are not equal
If people are not equal then it is logical to choose who to save, if people are equal then it is logical to take names out of a hat because that is fair, everyone has a equal chance to live or to die.
Just to prove a point? what is the point of debate if not to prove a point? why do you give your opinion that you are uncertain off?
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See, now we're getting somewhere, this is a much more reasoned post than 'exterminate all the disabled and homeless people'.
You sit down and think about who you would save, using a variety of criteria, because different people have different skill sets and therefore different value.
That doesn't amount to 'exterminating all the homeless and disabled people' though...
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Classic socialism? Perhaps. Modern socialism is more the act of people from all walks of life coming together in their communities and speaking with one voice. The BNP certainly don't fit that criteria.
On the contrary, they do, it's just that voice is racist.
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Exactly. You can't be Socialist and racist. Socialism largely revolves around principles of equality.
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Its not more reasoned its exactly the same thing, you seem to have a need to rationalise things with emotions, i have no such problem. (and your quoting me out of context!!)
To me, choosing 50% to save, or actively killing 50% yourself is exactly the same thing, its the whole glass is half full/ half empty thing, its just a matter of perspective.
Actively making a choice who to save = Actively making a choice who to kill, I sense you are not comfortable with this?
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Yes you can, socialism (when defined correctly rather than based on random ideas from a song) does not prohibit racism (or indeed any other ism).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socialism
May I suggest you read up on what socialism actually means? Social authoritarianism (of which racism is just one example) is a feature of, not an opposition to, socialism. That some socialist parties (for example, Old Labour) advocated using social authoritarianism to oppose racism doesn't make it incompatible. It is about socialisation of economics and state enforcement of the desires of the group, nothing more.
Soldato
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You know i actually had quite an interesting discussion in one of the Socialist circles to come up with that definition. It might be rough but it gets the message across. To be a racist you have to think that one group of people is better than another group of people. To be a Socialist you have to think that every group and body is equal. The two are incompatible.
I know what i believe, thank you very much.
You may know what you believe, but no-one else does because you're using the wrong term for it and ascribing attributes that do not fit with the term...
No you don't, you just need to think that a certain group of people is more deserving of assistance/opportunity, you don't have to believe that one group is better than another.
Not sure but Dolph does love his pseudo intellectual latin wikipedia links when he gets into a sticky argument (with of all people Platinum87 this time) doesn't he.
did someone say that?
Post #81.
That's neither the definition of "racism", nor the definition of "socialism".
It's quite difficult to have a decent discussion about things such as the class system, when the basic political and socio-economic concepts of what is under discussion aren't very well understood.
Yes, there is still a class system in effect in the UK, no it doesn't exert as much influence as it once did, no it's not powered *only* by money, yes it's less visible than it once was, no it probably won't directly affect anything in your life.
The presence of 1st class travel doesn't mean that the class system still exists - that was just a misappropriated term, and now means simply that you get a better service if you pay more. The original meaning related to seats or areas reserved only for the aristocracy.
I suggest everyone has a read of some Jane Austen.
hmm so the extreme right wingers are socialists but aren't they left wingers.
Aren't the BNP and their like just working class versions of the tories.
it's fairly obvious that right wingers are sociopaths because they are not socialists.
hmm so the extreme right wingers are socialists but aren't they left wingers.
Aren't the BNP and their like just working class versions of the tories.
it's fairly obvious that right wingers are sociopaths because they are not socialists.
The BNP are economically left wing, socially authoritarian. (similar position to communism but less extreme).
New labour, the lib dems and the conservatives are all currently economically right leaning authoritarians to a greater or lesser extent.
The BNP and the Tories are economically completely opposed to each other.
http://politicalcompass.org/extremeright
Gives a good explanation of the actual positions involved.
And what was going through your mind (apart from a complete lack of rationality) with the last sentence?
hmm so the extreme right wingers are socialists but aren't they left wingers.
Have a look at the non racist policies of the BNP. Mostly socialist populist policies, to be honest the terms "right wing" and "left wing" are pretty pointless and don't really give you much detail as to what the party means.
No, they are more like a racist version of the old Labour party.
well I think they fit in the definition here very well.
http://www.mcafee.cc/Bin/sb.html
no idea on the credibility of that link though and admittedly quite a few of the self proclaimed left wingers do as well, just because they sit on one side or the other doesn't define what they are.
http://www.mcafee.cc/Bin/sb.html
no idea on the credibility of that link though and admittedly quite a few of the self proclaimed left wingers do as well, just because they sit on one side or the other doesn't define what they are.