"whitewashing" garbage
- Thread starter wolfie138
- Start date
Wellthatescalatedquickly.jpg
How do you work that one out?
Caporegime
- Joined
- 30 Jul 2013
- Posts
- 30,006
The same people who hate the term whitewashing are the ones who flip out at Ghostbusters going female or the suggestion of a black James Bond.
The occasional change of race or gender of characters can be an interesting twist. With Asian characters in Hollywood, it's done en masse. That's the problem people have with it.
The occasional change of race or gender of characters can be an interesting twist. With Asian characters in Hollywood, it's done en masse. That's the problem people have with it.
Soldato
- Joined
- 7 Jul 2011
- Posts
- 4,418
- Location
- Cambridgeshire
The issue isn't changing an Asian character to a western character. The issue is under-representation of Asians within film AND the removal of roles they could play through "whitewashing". This wouldn't be a problem if it happened in the other direction with the same regularity but it doesn't.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not actually fully on board with the whole "whitewashing" thing, there was an uproar over Netflix moving the setting of Deathnote to Seattle and then casting Caucasians in all of the roles. In my mind that a re-imagining of the source material and it happens all the time, it was done for the wrong reasons (to better appeal to western audiences on would presume) and it made the film less interesting as a result but there it is.
I'd like to see an increase in diversity within film, more ethnic minority characters, more ethnic minority leads, but for this to really occur you need Hollywood to a)write roles for these people at the beginning b) be brave enough to commission the work that contains the roles and c) consider ethnic minority actors on a level playing field with everyone else during the casting process, I think saying "we're specifically recasting harry potter as a middle eastern dude" is probably counterproductive.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not actually fully on board with the whole "whitewashing" thing, there was an uproar over Netflix moving the setting of Deathnote to Seattle and then casting Caucasians in all of the roles. In my mind that a re-imagining of the source material and it happens all the time, it was done for the wrong reasons (to better appeal to western audiences on would presume) and it made the film less interesting as a result but there it is.
I'd like to see an increase in diversity within film, more ethnic minority characters, more ethnic minority leads, but for this to really occur you need Hollywood to a)write roles for these people at the beginning b) be brave enough to commission the work that contains the roles and c) consider ethnic minority actors on a level playing field with everyone else during the casting process, I think saying "we're specifically recasting harry potter as a middle eastern dude" is probably counterproductive.
It's amazing how many seem to struggle to understand this.
I pointed it out on page 1: everyone kept arguing about "source material" etc.
It gives the impression of wilful ignorance.
Soldato
- Joined
- 7 Jul 2011
- Posts
- 4,418
- Location
- Cambridgeshire
I know what you mean, there was a comment earlier on around the Agents of Shield actor having to change her name from Chang in order to get work being okay because everyone uses stage names anyway.....insanity.
So what you're saying is people should make films that don't appeal as much to their target audiences? Do you know how stupid that is?
The vast majority of western cinema goers are white. The majority of western inhabitants are white. Ergo when a film is set in the West or targeting a western audience it makes sense for the majority of the characters to be...white. it helps the viewer relate more.
Or are we going to start proposing that Bollywood films should be full of Latinos and Inuit?
Soldato
- Joined
- 7 Jul 2011
- Posts
- 4,418
- Location
- Cambridgeshire
Not at all, I completely understand why producers would feel the need to mandate that a film like Deathnote be moved to a western setting, and I think you're right the setting of a film and potentially the race of its cast (not necessarily individual characters but entire casts certainly) has an impact on whether or not people will go and watch it. Having said that films like Crouching Tiger do suggest that this isn't always the case.
I still think it's a bad reason for moving the setting though, especially since it's had a negative effect in my opinion on what the film could have been (and keep in mind I've never seen the anime etc so that's not a factor for me). The way the film is shot and the general tone would have been a brilliant fit for a Japanese setting, especially Tokyo. At what point does the creative damage of pandering to the audience in a quest for ratings overrule the benefit of doing so, what's more relevant, having a commercial success or a critical one? It's a fine line certainly.
The problem with this kind of re-imagining is that, unless audiences are given the option of experiencing an adaptation involving the true setting, then they'll never adapt (if a period of adaptation is needed). It's a chicken and the egg scenario, big studios can't throw out AAA films that take these kind of risks if they can't be sure that people will watch, we won't know if people will watch/people won't gradually embrace the changes unless we create the relevant AAA content.
I get the concerns, but part of me thinks if your film is good people will watch regardless of the setting and race of cast members.
Your last point is nonsense, Bollywood films are inherently culturally Indian and as such should retain that cultural identity, it's exactly the case I was making for not moving the setting of certain films.
I find it a bit strange that Disney got hold of StarWars and made it all about the women. Im not saying that women should be cast as leads in these films but they kind went at it 110% and just cast a female lead in both the opening films. It was a little jarring for me.
Not to mention the acting of both the female leads was not convincing at all.
Not to mention the acting of both the female leads was not convincing at all.
Soldato
- Joined
- 6 Jan 2013
- Posts
- 22,309
- Location
- Rollergirl
It was a tongue in cheek reference to the fact that we don't have any aboriginal Wookie available to play the part of Chewbacca and instead had to settle for a white guy in a costume.
Soldato
- Joined
- 6 Jan 2013
- Posts
- 22,309
- Location
- Rollergirl
Can she be absolutely clear it was racism that held her back? That's a very important assumption that is being made, unless I'm missing some evidence?
Caporegime
- Joined
- 30 Jul 2013
- Posts
- 30,006
It wasn't jarring for me, I thought Daisy Ridley was great.
As for Rogue One, it wasn't as concerned with characters as it was with spectacle, so nobody in the cast particularly stands out, whether they are male or female.
Caporegime
- Joined
- 30 Jul 2013
- Posts
- 30,006
She said as soon as she changed her name, she started getting roles
You said - (Paraphrasing) "Could just be co-incidence"
I'd say that is extremely unlikely.
Soldato
- Joined
- 7 Jul 2011
- Posts
- 4,418
- Location
- Cambridgeshire
All I've got to go on is the interview she gave but the implication seemed to be that she got little or no work up until the point she changed her name, from that point it was easier for her to find roles. So no there is no clear evidence but there is seemingly a causal link, and the experiences of other actors choosing to, or being told to, adopt western names suggests that there is bias in the industry. The reasons for this probably don't boil down to casting directors not liking Asians as much as people with Asian/Jewish/African etc names not being seen as marketable.
So you thought the way she was able to instantly use a light sabre to fight off Kylo Ren a trained fighter wasnt jarring.... I mean she had the force but come on! The way she instantly was able to do things in that movie was just crazy.
"oh ive played around with a few ships but this Millennium Falcon is easy to fly and fix!" I know this has nothing to do with a female cast but this movie was just ridiculous