I reckon I could retro-fit that 
Who owns a Mondeo ST220 / ST TDCI?
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Soldato
I rest my case.
Soldato
My cousin keeps banging on to me to buy a mondeo. He rates them highly so I have started looking at the ST220 TDCI? What are these like, and how reliable/economical are they? They seem very well specced. Are heated seats an option?
Are they better then the 1.9CDTI Vectras?
Are they better then the 1.9CDTI Vectras?
I can't comment too much on if a ST TDCI is better than the CDTI Vectra, but I can give you my opinion on a Vectra v Mondeo.
I owned a 3.2 V6 GSI Vectra for about 4 years. It was lovely to drive - in a straight line. Obviously quick. My brother-in-law owned a V6 diesel Vecrta and we both found them to be reliable and don't think they ever let either of us down. Spacious and, although opinion is divided, I do think they are quite nice looking cars. Only major thing I ever had go on my Vectra was the driveshaft.
However, for me the biggest fault with the Vectra was it's handling. Mine would do nearly 155mph, but you couldn't get it to go into a corner at 50mph, they really are bad. Just never felt planted like the Mondeo does.
I have also owned an older 2.5 V6 Vectra and an older ST24, and both of these were exactly the same in terms of handling.
Realise it wasn't exactly what you asked, but just my experience of a Vectra v Mondeo.
I owned a 3.2 V6 GSI Vectra for about 4 years. It was lovely to drive - in a straight line. Obviously quick. My brother-in-law owned a V6 diesel Vecrta and we both found them to be reliable and don't think they ever let either of us down. Spacious and, although opinion is divided, I do think they are quite nice looking cars. Only major thing I ever had go on my Vectra was the driveshaft.
However, for me the biggest fault with the Vectra was it's handling. Mine would do nearly 155mph, but you couldn't get it to go into a corner at 50mph, they really are bad. Just never felt planted like the Mondeo does.
I have also owned an older 2.5 V6 Vectra and an older ST24, and both of these were exactly the same in terms of handling.
Realise it wasn't exactly what you asked, but just my experience of a Vectra v Mondeo.
Soldato
Some diesels are quite refined these days; the ST TDCI doesn't seem to be one of them though. I've heard one running next to my ST220 and it completely drowned mine out with it's agricultural noise.
It's also a fair bit less powerful (155 PS vs 226 PS), the spec is a bit lower (seats for example) and for a diesel is not very economical. Some people have ran them to over 100k without a problem but quite a few others have had to replace the EGR valve (more than once), pulley tensioner (again more than once) and had injector/DMF failures too.
They looke nearly identical to the petrol though apart from having just the single tailpipe instead of two.
It's also a fair bit less powerful (155 PS vs 226 PS), the spec is a bit lower (seats for example) and for a diesel is not very economical. Some people have ran them to over 100k without a problem but quite a few others have had to replace the EGR valve (more than once), pulley tensioner (again more than once) and had injector/DMF failures too.
They looke nearly identical to the petrol though apart from having just the single tailpipe instead of two.
A 155bhp 4 cylinder diesel doesn't deserve to wear the ST badge, IMHO. You'll get plenty of people on owner's forums disagreeing and telling you how they "kept up" with ST220s, remapped them to 500bhp and 1400 lb-ft of torque, etc, but that'll just be their purchase justification.
It's a much better car than the Vectra though, but then that's not hard
It's a much better car than the Vectra though, but then that's not hard
Soldato
My mrs's brother has one and it sounds like a tank. Performance cars should not sound like a tank.
Isn't the disesal ST just a tarted up Titanium? It does not have the stiffer chassis and suspension and steering does it?
Sure i read this somewhere.
Isn't the disesal ST just a tarted up Titanium? It does not have the stiffer chassis and suspension and steering does it?
Sure i read this somewhere.
Associate
I have an ST TDCI and the noise it makes is far from refined! Anyone saying it will keep up with an ST220 must be drunk.
Mine is now at 114k, after doing 50k with me in just over 2 years, and surprisingly it has been ok. I had to have the aircon fixed as the compressor jammed and clean the egr valve but that is it.
Though I am certainly not expecting it to be trouble free forever. Dmf and injectors will happen!
Mine is now at 114k, after doing 50k with me in just over 2 years, and surprisingly it has been ok. I had to have the aircon fixed as the compressor jammed and clean the egr valve but that is it.
Though I am certainly not expecting it to be trouble free forever. Dmf and injectors will happen!
Soldato
The more I research on the diesels I like the more I see common faults with them. Is the ST worth a punt though? I've seen a nice one with nice recaro seats but it has done 123k and he wants £lol4k. I think it's a 2007.
Soldato
Check the history with the owner and see if it has had the DMF, DPF and the injectors replaced.
120k and 6 years old i would have a guess it has had these done or is ready for these doing (maybe reason for sale)
Then again, i might just be talking paranoia crap. But this is the way i would look at it.
120k and 6 years old i would have a guess it has had these done or is ready for these doing (maybe reason for sale)
Then again, i might just be talking paranoia crap. But this is the way i would look at it.
Best to just get the ST220 and not have to worry about things like that. 
Soldato
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A colleague at my previous place of work has an 07 plate ST TDCI. We went on a 20 mile drive home together and I found his ST a totally uninspiring place to be. The seats were uncomfortable and didn't offer the lumbar support of the ST220 whose leather sports seats are utterly superb IMHO and better than the comfort seats in my e39.
The diesel engine has little of the refinment of the V6 petrol and cabin noise was quite loud compared to my ST220.
Anyway, the fact that the TDCi has a single tailpipe should be reason enough to avoid it quite frankly.
The diesel engine has little of the refinment of the V6 petrol and cabin noise was quite loud compared to my ST220.
Anyway, the fact that the TDCi has a single tailpipe should be reason enough to avoid it quite frankly.
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Mike, how would you compare the ST220 to your E39?
Associate
It certainly does! At least it doesn't look like one
As much as I'd love an ST220, I don't think the fuel bill would fit well with my 24,000 miles a year
Soldato
Yeah thats what i do and it is costing me a fortune lol
Permabanned
It certainly does! At least it doesn't look like one
As much as I'd love an ST220, I don't think the fuel bill would fit well with my 24,000 miles a year
I do just over half that £300 on petrol, £180 - £210 on LPG.
I would defo belooking at the highest MPG diesel I could find at that money (Unless your employer pays your fuel bill)
Isn't the VW diesel one of the most economical engines out there at the minute ?
Soldato
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In short - far superior.
I have a 530SE auto which I px'd my ST220 against to get into and I've had no reason to regret doing so. The difference in ride quality is what initially stood out. My E39 offers a much softer ride, is far less crashy on poor surfaces yet also feels fully planted in the twisties.
On both cars the steering is sharp, responsive and reassuringly 'heavy' giving just the perfect amount of feel through the front wheels but the e39 is just, well, better.
Weight distribution feels more equally balanced in the E39. As good as the ST was through fast bends, the heavy V6 lump up front was noticeable, especially so under heavy braking.
Braking from high speed in the ST was scary. The BMW brakes inspire waaay more confidence.
My e39 is fairly base spec so doesnt have all the toys of the ST. I do miss heated & electric front seats but the BMW warms up astonishingly quickly from cold so I don't miss it massively.
The e39 cabin, interior plastics and leather are superior. Rattles and squeaks were ever-present in my ST220. The e39 offers silent bliss. Its an astonishingly well put together car. Even opening and shutting the doors on my car puts a smile on my face. They're heavy and they make a satisfying clunk when closing. The ST does offer more comfortable sport seats than e39 Comfort seats. However the leather quality is better in the e39. As I've never sat in an e39 Sport I can't say whether its Sport seats are on a par with those in the ST220.
The engines of both are brilliant but the straight 6 power delivery in the BMW feels more linear. You'll already know that you that the ST does its best work at the upper end of the rev range and needs to be gunned to get the best out of it.
The auto box is superb in the e39 and its a breeze drinving around town and in heavy traffic. I found the ST to be quite tiring to drive in heavy traffic due to the weight of the vehicle, its less responsive brakes and its manual box.
In terms of fuel economy, inevitably you're gonna get bent over in both. In heavy traffic the ST220 returned ~21mpg; my e39 is slighly less - maybe 18-20mpg.
The 'problem' with the ST220 was that the V6 was thirsty no matter how I drove it. At least on the motorway the e39 repays me if I drive like a granny - which I often do. Stick the e39 on cruise at 70mph, lean back and reap some relative rewards.
The E39 Sport is obviously more popular than the SE but its harder to find outstanding Sport examples which are well priced. I actually paid a fair bit over the odds to get my 1 owner SE but its repaid me in terms of reliability.
An unexpected bonus is the copious number of wheel options available in a BMW. My Style 71's are going on this week and will give the car a very different 'look' I hope. Wheel options are limited in the ST although the standard alloys are great if looked after...too easy to kerb them though.
Moving from an ST220 to the E39 felt like a natural and logical progression, but if memory serves me well, you paid top dollar for your ST220 a few years ago. This makes the decision as to whether to take the depreciation hit a much harder one.
As good as the ST is, it's still a Mondeo. The snob in me likes being in an over engineered E39.
Good comparison and info, thanks. It all sounds about right - the BMW is likely to feel like a higher quality product, but then that's what it is
I don't think I'd really reap the benefits though and yes like you said I didn't buy a bottom of the market model (although it was 6.5k 3 years ago so hardly hugely overpriced) and I know its condition and it is in excellent condition still.
Still, tis always interesting to compare
I don't think I'd really reap the benefits though and yes like you said I didn't buy a bottom of the market model (although it was 6.5k 3 years ago so hardly hugely overpriced) and I know its condition and it is in excellent condition still.
Still, tis always interesting to compare
Soldato
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My opening line in my previous post says the BMW is 'far superior', which is a bit harsh on the ST220. I saw a stunning ST220 estate in silver with red leather a few days ago. It was still a thing of beauty.