Associate
- Joined
- 19 Oct 2002
- Posts
- 1,519
- Location
- The Land of Cheese
Who works in Enterprise IT
- Thread starter Rotty
- Start date
I joined [insert large IT consultancy] a year ago and in that time have worked on a number of challenging roles. Like others within my graduate scheme, I am one of the idiots who obtained excellent grads and a number of research scholarships whilst working my arse off at uni.
Whilst at uni I worked for a number of small website development firms developing both DotNetNuke and PHP oriented sites.
I travelled from New Zealand in order to work with the amazing talent that the UK has. I'm currently in the process of transitioning (the process by which a graduate negotiates a place within a particular area) into the SAP business unit in which I hope to specialise in integration (XI, PI etc).
Good graduate schemes will 'weed' out the individuals that you speak of.
A decent uni operates as a uni and not a tech. I think you are confused here. I.e., it's the concepts, design patterns and methodologies that are important. Not necessarily what’s current.
I guess it depends on what area you want to work within IT. I totally agree that in the world of infrastructure support and even design that a typical university graduate may not provide as much value as a self taught, self confessed nerd.
However, 'these days' a university degree is what is required to get your foot in the door for any half decent graduate program.
As others have commented above, a graduate scheme provides the opportunity for us to learn and grow into a speciality of our choosing.
To summarise, I think there are advantages to both career paths. I just get really ****** off when I see comments like the above.
Whilst at uni I worked for a number of small website development firms developing both DotNetNuke and PHP oriented sites.
I travelled from New Zealand in order to work with the amazing talent that the UK has. I'm currently in the process of transitioning (the process by which a graduate negotiates a place within a particular area) into the SAP business unit in which I hope to specialise in integration (XI, PI etc).
Good graduate schemes will 'weed' out the individuals that you speak of.
A decent uni operates as a uni and not a tech. I think you are confused here. I.e., it's the concepts, design patterns and methodologies that are important. Not necessarily what’s current.
I guess it depends on what area you want to work within IT. I totally agree that in the world of infrastructure support and even design that a typical university graduate may not provide as much value as a self taught, self confessed nerd.
However, 'these days' a university degree is what is required to get your foot in the door for any half decent graduate program.
As others have commented above, a graduate scheme provides the opportunity for us to learn and grow into a speciality of our choosing.
To summarise, I think there are advantages to both career paths. I just get really ****** off when I see comments like the above.
The big guys might pay you well after a few promotions, but you are running along a fixed path (born-school-degree-post grad-grad scheme-trainee-junior-senior-pensions-dead)
Incorrect. Many successful companies have been started by those who have bothered to get a decent education and a few year experience within a large corporate.
I believe the guys who started SAP were senior IBM employees. I also know many VERY well paid SAP contractors who 'shined' within their respective graduate schemes.
Associate
- Joined
- 18 Oct 2002
- Posts
- 1,685
- Location
- Theale, Berkshire
Thank you! At last an ally!
Associate
- Joined
- 5 Jun 2007
- Posts
- 299
Just a quick q, how did all you guys decide what area you wanted to work in? Was it the money or what interested you more? Or both?
Interest - + i got far better grades doing IS and CS based papers at uni so i stuck with it.
I'm currently deciding now whether I move down to infrastructure IT and apply for a job in the server team at my place, or stick in the current business systems side of things. Really tough call as both paths have pros and cons...
Got to apply by tomorrow as well!! Think I'll apply anyway and decide what happens if I get offered the job..
Soldato
- Joined
- 18 Oct 2002
- Posts
- 9,637
- Location
- Xbox Live
To the HP lot here,
Will you be moving into the EDS arena. (if so welcome to EDS
) Or are you going to be unaffected by the Takeover?
BTW I'm an Oracle (and sometimes SQL Server) DBA, working on mostly Solaris, HP-Unix and AIX and occasionally Windows)
Will you be moving into the EDS arena. (if so welcome to EDS
) Or are you going to be unaffected by the Takeover?BTW I'm an Oracle (and sometimes SQL Server) DBA, working on mostly Solaris, HP-Unix and AIX and occasionally Windows)
Interesting debate here.
I think most people in the thread agree that you are not going to get very far if you believe that you can rely enitrely on doing a degree. Assuming you have done a decent IT based one, then it will have given you some good foundation knowledge, learned a bit about the IT field and provide you with the opportunity to get your foot in the door. What you do with this and how you apply it is the important part.
I've have seen many examples of what I call purely academic people that have no idea how to apply what they have learnt in practical everyday situations - including someone with an MSc in computing. I have no sympathy for people in these positions and have had a couple of people demoted because of their ability not meeting up to expectations.
Employers do like to see an IT based degree, but really that just says you have taken the trouble to study the subject and that you may have potential. The biggest factor is experience or something that has demonstrated your ability to apply yourself in an IT role. If you can find a few small jobs sorting out a database for a small business, or perhaps writing a small business application part-time while in the first years of the course, it will give you a huge leg-up.
I think most people in the thread agree that you are not going to get very far if you believe that you can rely enitrely on doing a degree. Assuming you have done a decent IT based one, then it will have given you some good foundation knowledge, learned a bit about the IT field and provide you with the opportunity to get your foot in the door. What you do with this and how you apply it is the important part.
I've have seen many examples of what I call purely academic people that have no idea how to apply what they have learnt in practical everyday situations - including someone with an MSc in computing. I have no sympathy for people in these positions and have had a couple of people demoted because of their ability not meeting up to expectations.
Employers do like to see an IT based degree, but really that just says you have taken the trouble to study the subject and that you may have potential. The biggest factor is experience or something that has demonstrated your ability to apply yourself in an IT role. If you can find a few small jobs sorting out a database for a small business, or perhaps writing a small business application part-time while in the first years of the course, it will give you a huge leg-up.
Associate
- Joined
- 5 Jun 2007
- Posts
- 299
You see this annoys me.
I cant really reply to that without sounding like a racist in terms of who i choose to employ and the reason for my decisions
This annoys me even more. (Not attacking you will, everyone has to do it these days). Why should people have to be scared to tell things how they really are? It's PC gone mad.
Associate
- Joined
- 19 Oct 2002
- Posts
- 1,519
- Location
- The Land of Cheese
To the HP lot here,
Will you be moving into the EDS arena. (if so welcome to EDS
BTW I'm an Oracle (and sometimes SQL Server) DBA, working on mostly Solaris, HP-Unix and AIX and occasionally Windows)
I'm working onsite on an account so am unlikely to be affected directly by the takeover. Like you say its more of an EDS take over than the other way round.
A very interesting thread and i wish i had something interesting to add but I am suprised how popular virtualisation is in larger organisations (showing my inexperience now 
)
As for me I only graduated last December and been working as an IT admininstrator for an awarding body in wales. Theres only 3 IT staff including me with around 100 users spread over 3 sites.
With regards to IT degrees and employment/progression, I agree with most that experience is the key. I do believe that my degree did help me get my first IT job but thats about it really. I will probably never need it again now im in IT. Just need to keep working hard and progress as my experience grows.
)As for me I only graduated last December and been working as an IT admininstrator for an awarding body in wales. Theres only 3 IT staff including me with around 100 users spread over 3 sites.
With regards to IT degrees and employment/progression, I agree with most that experience is the key. I do believe that my degree did help me get my first IT job but thats about it really. I will probably never need it again now im in IT. Just need to keep working hard and progress as my experience grows.
I dont work for a large company, and only a team of 2 of us (me and my boss) we seem to do ok, dont really outsource any hardware support due to me previously being a hardware engineer, and the company generally being tight!
but my experience is mainly with HP, IBM and Dell servers/blades, exchange 2k3/2k7, Cisco (Routers, Firewalls), Avaya, and lately SQL.
Previous to me being a hardware engineer worked in a 3 technician team in a school supporting 1200 users, 10 servers, D2D2T RM Boxes, Bloxx Web filtering, and all sorts of security equipment/software. Was the best starter job i could have hoped for, learnt a lot!
The School i worked for put me through a foundation degree (IT and tech support), which was to be honest, easy. Having a 'degree-ish' hasnt really helped me in any of my interviews, my experience was the key in my previous jobs, also passed my Server+ and working on the MCSE, unsure whether to stufy 2k8 and windows 7!!
any advice?
but my experience is mainly with HP, IBM and Dell servers/blades, exchange 2k3/2k7, Cisco (Routers, Firewalls), Avaya, and lately SQL.
Previous to me being a hardware engineer worked in a 3 technician team in a school supporting 1200 users, 10 servers, D2D2T RM Boxes, Bloxx Web filtering, and all sorts of security equipment/software. Was the best starter job i could have hoped for, learnt a lot!
The School i worked for put me through a foundation degree (IT and tech support), which was to be honest, easy. Having a 'degree-ish' hasnt really helped me in any of my interviews, my experience was the key in my previous jobs, also passed my Server+ and working on the MCSE, unsure whether to stufy 2k8 and windows 7!!
any advice?
Associate
- Joined
- 1 Feb 2009
- Posts
- 2,124
Currently on a placement year in an IT company who serves a lot of small businesses in the north east. Having a great time and learning a lot. So i guess i could as working in enterprise??
I work as a freelance network engineer / infrastructure designer for a few companies that work in a little niche area doing temporary communications installs for the large events sector.
Anything from trade shows, exhibitions, rock and roll tours, big sporting events etc. we provide the network and comms infrastructure for anything from a couple of hundred users upto tens of thousands of punters.
I like it as its a very varied job, and we work in some very unusual environments but are often required to deploy very high-end and complex networks so over the last few years I've learned all sorts
It is fairly high pressure work and we typically deploy the kind of infrastructure in a couple of weeks that a regular enterprise might roll out over a few months and most of the time it is bespoke for the event so lots of opportunities to learn about new technologies and kit.
Mostly working with Cisco and Juniper kit and I have a few certs from both vendors but my practical experience goes well beyond what they have ever taught me.
Anything from trade shows, exhibitions, rock and roll tours, big sporting events etc. we provide the network and comms infrastructure for anything from a couple of hundred users upto tens of thousands of punters.
I like it as its a very varied job, and we work in some very unusual environments but are often required to deploy very high-end and complex networks so over the last few years I've learned all sorts
It is fairly high pressure work and we typically deploy the kind of infrastructure in a couple of weeks that a regular enterprise might roll out over a few months and most of the time it is bespoke for the event so lots of opportunities to learn about new technologies and kit.
Mostly working with Cisco and Juniper kit and I have a few certs from both vendors but my practical experience goes well beyond what they have ever taught me.