why all the hate for hs2?
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The report claims £2.50 would be generated for every £1 spent with improving existing networks. This is compared to a return of £1.30-£1.50 for HS2 - which is higher than I was expecting
. We will know more about the Eastern route at the end of next month with Rishi's spending review.Once they cancel it north of Birmingham the returns will be even lower no doubt. If this was really about levelling up the north they would have started in Leeds and Manchester not left those bits so easy to cancel!The report claims £2.50 would be generated for every £1 spent with improving existing networks. This is compared to a return of £1.30-£1.50 for HS2 - which is higher than I was expecting
Most people by now should have realised this. The current Labour incarnation exists solely to oppose whatever the Tories propose, even if it was previously a Labour policy, and quite recently at that.
Labour reek of desperation, cluelessness, and of a party blown about in the wind, rather than knowing what they stand for. Perfectly encapsulated by their leader, whose values and positions seem to be a closely guarded secret. Or he has none.
Man of Honour
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The report claims £2.50 would be generated for every £1 spent with improving existing networks. This is compared to a return of £1.30-£1.50 for HS2 - which is higher than I was expecting
It doesn't, they've taken a report into the contribution of the entire railway system and it's economic benefits and used this as a figure for 'investing in existing networks'. Ideally you'd have both HS2 and investment in existing networks.
Report: https://www.riagb.org.uk/RIA/RIA_new/Press/Oxford_Economics.aspx
That means first time buyers will be priced out of Birmingham, we'll have to head further north
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Oh **** right OK changed my mind cancel hs2 until we can get a wall built
Soldato
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What an absolute ******* disaster this is turning out to be.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-59334043
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-59334043
Was interesting to hear labour being booed in our last union meeting.
Thier little announcement had nothing to do with our pay negotiations or problems but some wishy washy bs about how they were spending our union subs increasing diversity in a city half the country away from the factory
Government projects have always been like this, whether it's Tideway, Crossrail, HS2, or my personal favourite: Old Street Roundabout.
Old Street Roundabout was due to be completed in 2019, and it's still not even close to completion. I work on top of it and watch what happens, and the answer is extremely little. I reckon I could solo half the work that their workforce does every day and still get better results, it's genuinely astonishing to watch. Their excuse is "pandemic" obviously, but I'm not sure whether they realise that the pandemic only started in 2020, and even then, these people were key workers, so that excuse holds about as much water as a cardboard box.
These projects shouldn't be considered projects, they're literally just money laundering operations which happen to have a bit of labour built in, and something to show if-and-when they finish. The prime objective of these "projects" is to move money from the government's pockets in to their mates' pockets, plain and simple.
Old Street Roundabout was due to be completed in 2019, and it's still not even close to completion. I work on top of it and watch what happens, and the answer is extremely little. I reckon I could solo half the work that their workforce does every day and still get better results, it's genuinely astonishing to watch. Their excuse is "pandemic" obviously, but I'm not sure whether they realise that the pandemic only started in 2020, and even then, these people were key workers, so that excuse holds about as much water as a cardboard box.
These projects shouldn't be considered projects, they're literally just money laundering operations which happen to have a bit of labour built in, and something to show if-and-when they finish. The prime objective of these "projects" is to move money from the government's pockets in to their mates' pockets, plain and simple.
I'm far from convinced there's any sense in abandoning infrastructure investment because we've made it too onerous to deliver in a cost effective and time efficient way.
I have no particular feelings about hs2 beyond the necessity of relieving pressure on the west coast mainline, but I am really concerned about the way it all happened, the cause of the delays and the cost overruns that are largely driven by unnecessary red tape and pandering to nimbyism.
I think that Golborne link being axed is quite good for Warrington because a) some warehouses in the way won't be demolished, which some locals will be happy about, but b) much more significantly it means all the hs2 trains going north have to come through Warrington rather than skipping straight to Wigan, so more chance we'll get a better service 
I think originally the justification for the link was that there was going to a depot up there somewhere, but that depot got axed a while back and after that there hasn't been such a reason for the link.
I think originally the justification for the link was that there was going to a depot up there somewhere, but that depot got axed a while back and after that there hasn't been such a reason for the link.
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It’ll disappear to their mates along with the other billions that have disappeared.
I don't normally chime in on the forums more of a lurker but the hs2 is something that hits very close to home.
The government have been for the last 10 years sending my parents both now in the 70s an endless stream of letters, documents, notifications of the land they are taking for the purpose of building the hs2.
It has caused them no end of anguish as they have received the same documents asking them the same questions over and over. Advising them of what land they are taking, which in some cases was the wrong land belonging to other people.
They have received partial payment for the land that has been taken despite the fact they have been developing and working on the land now for several years.
We are right at the end of the 1st phase of the hs2 so you can quite clearly see they are using the land as a giant depot as the location gives them easy access to a main artery road as well as the railway system. You can imagine the size and scale of just the one section.
It is just one example of the mess this has caused and it is quite clear it is being poorly managed.
The government have been for the last 10 years sending my parents both now in the 70s an endless stream of letters, documents, notifications of the land they are taking for the purpose of building the hs2.
It has caused them no end of anguish as they have received the same documents asking them the same questions over and over. Advising them of what land they are taking, which in some cases was the wrong land belonging to other people.
They have received partial payment for the land that has been taken despite the fact they have been developing and working on the land now for several years.
We are right at the end of the 1st phase of the hs2 so you can quite clearly see they are using the land as a giant depot as the location gives them easy access to a main artery road as well as the railway system. You can imagine the size and scale of just the one section.
It is just one example of the mess this has caused and it is quite clear it is being poorly managed.
What I find funny when they say levelling up the north they really mean the north west.
Nearly all economical graphs/data shows south east, london and north west as the dominance of the country a diagonal line. Midlands investment e.g. typically means west midlands. The east midlands is a political and economical waste land as well as east anglia.
HS2 follows this, the eastern path of it is already scrapped and its ended up as yet another south east north west link. It remains in my opinion very bad value for money.
Levelling up is supposed to be about the worse areas catching up with the best, then logically that would mean HS2 would link the south west to the north east whilst bypassing london.
They could even start by interconnecting the north, a decent Sheffield to Manchester train link would make a huge difference to mobility and opportunity at a fraction of the cost!What I find funny when they say levelling up the north they really mean the north west.
Nearly all economical graphs/data shows south east, london and north west as the dominance of the country a diagonal line. Midlands investment e.g. typically means west midlands. The east midlands is a political and economical waste land as well as east anglia.
HS2 follows this, the eastern path of it is already scrapped and its ended up as yet another south east north west link. It remains in my opinion very bad value for money.
Levelling up is supposed to be about the worse areas catching up with the best, then logically that would mean HS2 would link the south west to the north east whilst bypassing london.
An interesting video on the topic.
Fair play to the government for being forward thinking. I would be happy for the budget to increase if it meant adding more lines to connect the whole of the UK. I want a line running from London straight Edinburgh maybe stopping off at a few major cities along the east coast of the country. A line to wales and the south west tip of England. Is too far to build a rail bridge to NI? Because I want a line to belfast as well.
Previous generations have sought out ways to travel faster this generation has not only stagnated but has arguably regressed in certian areas regarding speed. The world feels smaller when you can get to places quicker.
Fair play to the government for being forward thinking. I would be happy for the budget to increase if it meant adding more lines to connect the whole of the UK. I want a line running from London straight Edinburgh maybe stopping off at a few major cities along the east coast of the country. A line to wales and the south west tip of England. Is too far to build a rail bridge to NI? Because I want a line to belfast as well.
Previous generations have sought out ways to travel faster this generation has not only stagnated but has arguably regressed in certian areas regarding speed. The world feels smaller when you can get to places quicker.
Soldato
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Can I recommend aircraft if you aren't stuck on travelling by train?
I hate public transport and would rather drive
Planes, have their place in the general transport industry, ideally you need a mix of both.