why all the hate for hs2?

CaptainCaracaras said:
Let me ask, what makes you against a bridge to Ireland?
I personally think that a trans Ireland-UK-Europe-Asia rail link all electrified would be absolutely monumental.
Imagine all the goods taken off the roads, and the reduction of reliance on dirty shipping etc.
The ONLY question for me is whether such a bridge would pay for itself in x years or forever sustain a loss.
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The huge technical challenges in creating such a long bridge, cost of £335 Billion which would no doubt increase.
 
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ebilcake said:
I'm generally pro large infrastructure project, unless they're ridiculous, like the bridge to Ireland.

I don't really get the negativity for HS2, if it was Labour project I'm sure many against it suddenly change their minds, so many opinions are politically weighted.
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No they ******* wont.

Its absolute trash and at such huge cost at a time when that money could be put to better use. Labour/Cons it doesn't matter.
 
As many have said, the problem with HS2 is they started at the wrong end of the country quite frankly. The north east is just ignored and has once again been left behind. Just look at the HS2 service map below. The north west is no better in reality as the line is just penciled in as "potential" past Manchester. I love the wording too, "Government is looking at the the most effective way to run HS2 trains to Leeds...". Basically, we don't want to spend anymore money on anyone else here, so we'll just fudge it for the northern folk.

HS2.jpg


So we have a line that stops at Manchester. That helps me in Newcastle how exactly? Manchester to me, is the very southern tip of where the Northern region begins. We have Leeds, York, Darlington, Durham, Sunderland, Newcastle all on the eastern leg with with no representation or investment. HS2 should have started at Newcastle and went south (and also west across to Carlisle) and then branched out at Leeds. Makes more sense to me as these areas would see the most benefit. So why the hate for HS2? Because it offers nothing for myself, the people or the area where I live.

From the telegraph:

"London to York will also take 98 minutes, 14 minutes longer than if the eastern leg had been constructed.
The journey to Darlington will be 125 minutes, 12 minutes slower,
and to Newcastle 148 minutes – an extra 11 minutes."

Brilliant.:rolleyes:
 
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doodah said:
A TLDR summary of the project. Damn at the London/Brum leg costing now costing more than the entire original budget.


And it gets worse with the cost per mile (definitely not an apples to apples as we are doing HS2 as one overarching project compared to sections in Europe so per unit costs are much higher. Begs the question, perhaps we should have thought about plan......in the planning stages).

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If they has split up the project into the individual stations as their own separate projects and the construction of the railway as its own porject, I wonder if this would have been easier to swallow for the genral public.
 
Firegod said:
As many have said, the problem with HS2 is they started at the wrong end of the country quite frankly. The north east is just ignored and has once again been left behind. Just look at the HS2 service map below. The north west is no better in reality as the line is just penciled in as "potential" past Manchester. I love the wording too, "Government is looking at the the most effective way to run HS2 trains to Leeds...". Basically, we don't want to spend anymore money on anyone else here, so we'll just fudge it for the northern folk.

HS2.jpg


So we have a line that stops at Manchester. That helps me in Newcastle how exactly? Manchester to me, is the very southern tip of where the Northern region begins. We have Leeds, York, Darlington, Durham, Sunderland, Newcastle all on the eastern leg with with no representation or investment. HS2 should have started at Newcastle and went south (and also west across to Carlisle) and then branched out at Leeds. Makes more sense to me as these areas would see the most benefit. So why the hate for HS2? Because it offers nothing for myself, the people or the area where I live.

From the telegraph:

"London to York will also take 98 minutes, 14 minutes longer than if the eastern leg had been constructed.
The journey to Darlington will be 125 minutes, 12 minutes slower,
and to Newcastle 148 minutes – an extra 11 minutes."

Brilliant.:rolleyes:
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God that such a joke of a map.
 
Firegod said:
As many have said, the problem with HS2 is they started at the wrong end of the country quite frankly. The north east is just ignored and has once again been left behind. Just look at the HS2 service map below. The north west is no better in reality as the line is just penciled in as "potential" past Manchester. I love the wording too, "Government is looking at the the most effective way to run HS2 trains to Leeds...". Basically, we don't want to spend anymore money on anyone else here, so we'll just fudge it for the northern folk.

HS2.jpg


So we have a line that stops at Manchester. That helps me in Newcastle how exactly? Manchester to me, is the very southern tip of where the Northern region begins. We have Leeds, York, Darlington, Durham, Sunderland, Newcastle all on the eastern leg with with no representation or investment. HS2 should have started at Newcastle and went south (and also west across to Carlisle) and then branched out at Leeds. Makes more sense to me as these areas would see the most benefit. So why the hate for HS2? Because it offers nothing for myself, the people or the area where I live.

From the telegraph:

"London to York will also take 98 minutes, 14 minutes longer than if the eastern leg had been constructed.
The journey to Darlington will be 125 minutes, 12 minutes slower,
and to Newcastle 148 minutes – an extra 11 minutes."

Brilliant.:rolleyes:
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Isn't that big gap where the East Coast Main Line already runs? ECML and HS2, together with the Northern Powerhouse Rail project should sort out rail in that area if they don't skimp on the project.
 
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explicit4u said:
Isn't that big gap where the East Coast Main Line already runs? ECML and HS2, together with the Northern Powerhouse Rail project should sort out rail in that area if they don't skimp on the project.
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It is exactly where the east coat main line runs. Edinburgh > Newcastle > Leeds> Peterborough > London basically.
 
eddiemcgarrigle said:
Scotland is having to pay towards it while only having a "potential" benefit.
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Interesting, had heard hs2 spending was being reimbursed as England-only spending via Barnett formula. Got a source showing how it's treated by Barnett formula, and has this changed recently?

Seems clear there will be some benefit to Scotland though, as rail journeys to/from Birmingham & London will be faster, so not sure Why it would only be seen as a 'potential' benefit.
 
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GreatAuk said:
Interesting, had heard hs2 spending was being reimbursed as England-only spending via Barnett formula. Got a source showing how it's treated by Barnett formula, and has this changed recently?

Seems clear there will be some benefit to Scotland though, as rail journeys to/from Birmingham & London will be faster, so not sure Why it would only be seen as a 'potential' benefit.
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I believe you are correct.
 
Don't see the benefit at all for the North when you can just pop on a plane for £cheap and be there almost a magnitude faster if speed is the only concern.

It's clearly only benefit is to get trucks off the road but how long will that last if all future investment in rail never happens because of the ridiculously dishonest nature of this expansion?
 
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Martini1991 said:
What has actually come of HS2 so far?
Like how much have we spent and how much rail do we have?
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we have spent loads and all it has done is increase the number of Tory donors that have been granted peerages and elevated to the house of lords. Working as intended.............................................
 
Laying tracks is the easy bit, it's all the tunnelling and prep work that takes time. You won't see any significant track until the project is nearing completion. Euston, the London end, still looks like a pit after they cleared all the buildings.
 
Need more nuke plants and less of this! Also kind of depressing when you see how much it was originally meant to cost and what it is now.
 
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