why all the hate for hs2?

Interesting, had heard hs2 spending was being reimbursed as England-only spending via Barnett formula. Got a source showing how it's treated by Barnett formula, and has this changed recently?

Seems clear there will be some benefit to Scotland though, as rail journeys to/from Birmingham & London will be faster, so not sure Why it would only be seen as a 'potential' benefit.
Just another baseless claim from a Scottish indy supporter.


Scotland will see some benefits with no costs yet they still moan.

Claim by 'facebook user' :cry:

What has actually come of HS2 so far?
Like how much have we spent and how much rail do we have?
You wont have any rail until just before the thing opens... tunnels are being bored, bridges are being made and groundworks assosiated with them in progress, terminals and routes to them are being cleared. Iirc there has been a load of archaeology along the route as well, there has been some pretty interest programs on what they found at various sites including Curzon street.
 
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Normal Speed 2?




The number of trains running on HS2 will be almost halved and services will travel more slowly in a proposed shake-up of the £72bn line as ministers scramble to save money.

Whitehall officials are considering reducing the number of trains from 18 to 10 an hour, insiders said.

Meanwhile, plans to run services at up to 360 km/h (224 mph) are in jeopardy as officials weigh whether to reduce maximum speeds.

The proposals are among a series of cost-cutting measures under discussion as part of an overhaul codenamed Project Silverlight and Operation Blue Diamond, as ministers grapple with huge inflationary pressures on Britain’s biggest infrastructure project.
 
Assuming you replied to me, I stated facts it wasn't a defence.
It’s like talking about brexit :p

Normal Speed 2?



Given the last ‘news’ story about HS2 wasn’t actually true, we should probably wait and not cause a rabble rousing on speculation.
 
As many have said, the problem with HS2 is they started at the wrong end of the country quite frankly. The north east is just ignored and has once again been left behind. Just look at the HS2 service map below. The north west is no better in reality as the line is just penciled in as "potential" past Manchester. I love the wording too, "Government is looking at the the most effective way to run HS2 trains to Leeds...". Basically, we don't want to spend anymore money on anyone else here, so we'll just fudge it for the northern folk.

HS2.jpg


So we have a line that stops at Manchester. That helps me in Newcastle how exactly? Manchester to me, is the very southern tip of where the Northern region begins. We have Leeds, York, Darlington, Durham, Sunderland, Newcastle all on the eastern leg with with no representation or investment. HS2 should have started at Newcastle and went south (and also west across to Carlisle) and then branched out at Leeds. Makes more sense to me as these areas would see the most benefit. So why the hate for HS2? Because it offers nothing for myself, the people or the area where I live.

From the telegraph:

"London to York will also take 98 minutes, 14 minutes longer than if the eastern leg had been constructed.
The journey to Darlington will be 125 minutes, 12 minutes slower,
and to Newcastle 148 minutes – an extra 11 minutes."

Brilliant.:rolleyes:
Yeah building out the high speed rail network from Newcastle, as much as that would be awesome for us, makes no sense. :p

Starting somewhere like Leeds, and building out in all directions however would have delivered significant benefits, sooner. And not been horribly London weighted. Your map also doesn't highlight the east of England not being served, Wales, Scotland, the South West, Northern Ireland etc. and actually all of the east midlands work has now been canned too.

This just ends up serving London. It turns Birmingham into a commuter town, and it gives London better connectivity to Manchester.
 
Birmingham is not going to be come a commuter town, just think about it for a few minutes…

Communing requires the door to door journey to be a sensible time E.g. in under 90 mins. It only works if you can get from home to the station in 10-15 mins and the same at the other end.

People that commute into London are not going to want to live in the centre of Birmingham in a flat and then spend thousands a year to get the train to London. Getting into the centre from elsewhere on public transport or car takes a long time.
 
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Mark thurston Hs2 ceo on r4 today - LOL we are trying to get better deals on materials, energy .... but skill/labour shortage is also problematic -
Rishi, yesterday didn't seem to know about Yosser phenomena either
 
I heard something on the radio this morning about some enquiry or similar into finding out why this is costing so much.

But I can't help but think that will also end up costing tax payer money as well?
 
I heard something on the radio this morning about some enquiry or similar into finding out why this is costing so much.

But I can't help but think that will also end up costing tax payer money as well?

Don't need an enquiry. It is all there on the internet. Look up the companies that got the initial contracts. Some of them got fined millions on previous botch ups. One of the companies was charged with Manslaughter for the Hatfield rail crash.

If that was you and I we would never work in that sector again.
 
Don't need an enquiry. It is all there on the internet. Look up the companies that got the initial contracts. Some of them got fined millions on previous botch ups. One of the companies was charged with Manslaughter for the Hatfield rail crash.

If that was you and I we would never work in that sector again.
That's not really a very useful explanation though. There's clearly a lot more to it than just 'bad companies', especially when they are some of the most important companies in the sector so not easy to just write them off entirely, especially not on the basis of a failure 20+ years ago.

I have seen lots of explanations around contracting, difficulties encountered with assessments and protests and scope changes / uncertainty, initial optimistic assumptions, the way costs are accounted for and finance provided etc, and the nature of the route etc, and expect the answer to be very complex and multi-faceted.

Even if the answer was simply 'dodgy companies' that wouldn't be a sufficient answer, because we'd need to understand why the procurement process didn't pick that up, what can be done to prevent that, why oversight wasn't sufficient etc.
 
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Haha. That'll learn erm.. Which idiots are paying for this ****?

Wait... Oh ****.
 
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I heard something on the radio this morning about some enquiry or similar into finding out why this is costing so much.

But I can't help but think that will also end up costing tax payer money as well?
Don't worry. If the enquiry costs start to spiral we can always have an enquiry in to the enquiry.
 
The government is set to announce that construction of certain sections of HS2 will be delayed to save money, the BBC understands.
It is thought the delay will primarily affect sections from Manchester to Crewe and Birmingham to Crewe.
But sources have also indicated that some of the design teams working on the Euston end of the line may be affected.
Contractors are looking at whether they need to redeploy staff working on that site.
The high-speed railway will link London, the Midlands and North of England.
However, it has been beset by delays and cost increases. In 2010, it was estimated to cost around £33bn but that has since swollen to at least £71bn.
Mark Thurston, chief executive of HS2 Ltd, recently told the BBC that he and the government were examining the phasing of the build and the timing.
The project is grappling with the rising cost of materials due to the high rate of inflation.
It is understood that the government hopes that the delays will allow it to spread the cost over a longer period of time, making it more affordable by reducing annual expenditure.
Chancellor Jeremy Hunt, who will outline his Budget next week, wants debt to fall as a percentage of GDP within five years - a target explicitly set by the Prime Minister
Last week, Mr Thurston said the impact of inflation had been "significant" in the past year, "whether that's in timber, steel, aggregates for all the concrete we need to use to build the job, labour, all our energy costs, fuel".
He said HS2 was working with suppliers and the government to find ways of mitigating rising costs.
"We're looking at the timing of the project, the phasing of the project, we're looking at where we can use our supply chain to secure a lot of those things that are costing us more through inflation," he said.

This is just going end up as an extremely expensive London to Birmingham line isn't it. Wonder what will happen to all the construction sites further up the line, will they stay as local eyesores for years to come.
 
This is just going end up as an extremely expensive London to Birmingham line isn't it. Wonder what will happen to all the construction sites further up the line, will they stay as local eyesores for years to come.
Loooool.
In in no way surprised.
They probably wanted to cancel it for a while, but had gone all in.

Now they can blame a myriad of external issues, say its down to things beyond their (tories) control and just park it up.


All the dodgy deals and corruption will all be paid, so I'm sure all the internal party members involved have already benefited.


Classic UK headline infrastructure project.
Over budget, late and unfinished.



By time it's finished we will be using teleportation.
 
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