why are magic mushrooms illegal

krooton · 13 Sep 2011 at 15:31

dazzerd said:
if drug use ever became legal it would be monitored and controlled to benefit the country as a whole - read taxed to hell.

And dealers currently sell it to people at cost?

Mr Krugga · 13 Sep 2011 at 15:31

All this thread really did is reminded me to get some shrooms.

Somnambulist · 13 Sep 2011 at 15:37

I listen to Shpongle, own Alex Grey art books, read read Rick Strassman M.D's book, have the right (mind) set and setting... but am too square to know where to begin my psychonautic adventures.

After doing a fair bit of reading, I feel inclined to agree with Joe Rogan that if you've never had a heavy psychedelic trip, experienced ego death etc, you're missing out on a (potentially) profound experience.

Nearest I'll get is the Ayahuasca trip scene here (based somewhat, excluding the animal spirits and plot-related memories, on what many people experience during a DMT trip, including the beings made from light, geometric patterns, pulsing sounds, dissolution of the self, going in the control room at the centre of the universe etc)

Trip to South America anyone?

Energize · 13 Sep 2011 at 15:47

dazzerd said:
Ironic coming from someone who takes drugs.

Anyway your point has no baring on mine; booze and fags are already legal and there would be uproar if you had to sign a register to use them, and I already explained one of the reasons why they remain legal. The majority of the country do not give a fying fig about drug users and their rights, you are in the minority and if drug use ever became legal it would be monitored and controlled to benefit the country as a whole - read taxed to hell.

Like I said, there's no evidence to support that assertion, quite the contrary. Prices have to be kept low to prevent black markets in drugs. The reason there isn't a black market for alcohol with people selling home brew is because prices are low. As it stands drug dealers make huge profits on drugs.

ubersonic · 13 Sep 2011 at 15:49

RadoX said:
Can someone please explain to me why psilocybin mushrooms have never killed anyone or made anyone insane yet they are class A drugs the same as heroin and crack cocaine, drugs that actually are addictive and kill people?

People ever had their lives ruined by shrooms? check.
People ever died from taking shrooms? Check, albiet people with underlying medical issues.
People ever killed themselves while tripping on shrooms? Check.
People ever killed others while tripping on shrooms? Check.

Seems clear cut to me, just because they are not as bad as similar drugs like LSD doesn't stop them being bad...

joeyjojo · 13 Sep 2011 at 15:51

Tefal said:
If you could buy them at a store for a reasonable price...

Sorry, don't you mean shop?

dazzerd · 13 Sep 2011 at 16:04

krooton said:
And dealers currently sell it to people at cost?

lol of course, they are the true servants of society

Efour · 13 Sep 2011 at 16:13

http://dmt.tribe.net/thread/9e832018-5fbc-4ff6-b4e5-e314184f687c

I read a few of these, there are 100s so don't get too into it or you will be there all week.

Ive been halfway there, but some of these are just "far out"

dazzerd · 13 Sep 2011 at 16:15

Energize said:
Like I said, there's no evidence to support that assertion, quite the contrary. Prices have to be kept low to prevent black markets in drugs. The reason there isn't a black market for alcohol with people selling home brew is because prices are low. As it stands drug dealers make huge profits on drugs.

Please go to your local tesco and check the price of fags out recently; the government do quite well in restricting the supply of cheap tobacco. The reason they do so well in keeping a check on illegal tobacco imports is that there is an incentive to do so, i.e. high taxes.

You also have the issue of perception of quality. If drug use becomes in some way normalised then people will want to buy quality stuff, they have the option of buying a gramme of coke from the local smuggler for £20.00 or the option of buying a gramme from the local government office for £40.00 I suspect the majority will pay £40.00 for it. Much like buying a box of 20 B&H from a dodgy looking fellow on holloway road may only cost £3.00, most would go to Asda and buy a box of genuine fags for £6+.

Regarding evidence there is no evidence either way what would happen in such a large country as the UK if drugs were legalised; it's all conjecture, my assumptions about what the governemt would do are simply based on my experience of watching how government and people in the UK have operated over the past 35 years

A drug market is not a free market which as you indicate would drive the prices down - it would be a government controlled market - you are not going to start to see Hovis and Warburtons competing over space cakes.

Energize · 13 Sep 2011 at 16:27

The price in Tesco is not representative of how well the government control supply because there are other illegal sources of tobacco. Just as there would be with drugs if they were legalised. Price elasticity determines the price of drugs, too high and people will buy them illegally, same with alcohol and tobacco, so I don't buy the idea that prices will increase massively.

dazzerd · 13 Sep 2011 at 16:47

Energize said:
The price in Tesco is not representative of how well the government control supply because there are other illegal sources of tobacco. Just as there would be with drugs if they were legalised. Price elasticity determines the price of drugs, too high and people will buy them illegally, same with alcohol and tobacco, so I don't buy the idea that prices will increase massively.

I don't disagree with the thoery. I disagree in what will happen in practice.

Your missing out on human psychology, who in their right minds is going to pay £20.00 quick for an eighth of dubious quality black from some dodgy bloke when they know they will get high quality stuff from the chemist for £40.00?

I don't know anybody who would go to the hassle of trying to get hold of smuggled fags when they can just get them in the shop, regardless of the massive difference in price.

Also at the moment there is no direct economic incentive for the government to worry too much about the supply of drugs into the UK. As soon as they become "the" player and they are generating a couple of billion in tax from the sale of this stuff, not only would they start taking more of an active interest this would also drive up the cost of smuggled drugs as they would be harder to get into the country.

Somnambulist · 13 Sep 2011 at 16:52

Hi.

playworker · 13 Sep 2011 at 16:55

Prices won't increase if drugs are legalised, the opposite in fact, even with taxes they'll still be cheaper because you don't have to pay for all the hassle of smuggling and distributing an illegal substance.

Cosimo · 13 Sep 2011 at 16:58

Somnambulist said:
Hi.[/QUOTE]

Hello. Yes, it's Lisbon.

Tefal · 13 Sep 2011 at 17:02

playworker said:
Prices won't increase if drugs are legalised, the opposite in fact, even with taxes they'll still be cheaper because you don't have to pay for all the hassle of smuggling and distributing an illegal substance.

indeed, most of the popular drugs are relatively easy to make/grow (heck you can even synthesise the active component in mushrooms so you could sell it as graded doses) so when you remove the need for secrecy they can be made by the tanker full in industrial chemical plants or grown in huge commercial farms.

RadoX · 13 Sep 2011 at 17:19

Robosapien said:
Where do these shrooms grow? I want to try them.

Is 25-50 okay as a first trip? Do you have to make them into a soup first?

Thnks

Actually, forget it, the thought of loosing control of my own thoughts is almost as terrifying as being locked out of my spaceship without air supply - the actual scenario, not the thought.

not sure this is the place to talk about it, check shroomery.org

bushmins · 13 Sep 2011 at 17:22

I didnt think they were illegal? Only if you dry them or prepare them some how.

dazzerd · 13 Sep 2011 at 17:23

Tefal said:
indeed, most of the popular drugs are relatively easy to make/grow (heck you can even synthesise the active component in mushrooms so you could sell it as graded doses) so when you remove the need for secrecy they can be made by the tanker full in industrial chemical plants or grown in huge commercial farms.

You miss the point, of course it will be cheaper to manufacture but the government will tax it to hell. Do you really think the governent would legalise it for some notion of free choice? They would legalise it to make money out of it.

It costs diddly squat to make a pack of fags but that saving is filled in by the governments tax take.

Maybe you gusy should find an uninhabited island, run around naked and grow your own

TheBrooder · 13 Sep 2011 at 17:49

Somnambulist said:
I listen to Shpongle, own Alex Grey art books, read read Rick Strassman M.D's book, have the right (mind) set and setting... but am too square to know where to begin my psychonautic adventures.

After doing a fair bit of reading, I feel inclined to agree with Joe Rogan that if you've never had a heavy psychedelic trip, experienced ego death etc, you're missing out on a (potentially) profound experience.

Nearest I'll get is the Ayahuasca trip scene here (based somewhat, excluding the animal spirits and plot-related memories, on what many people experience during a DMT trip, including the beings made from light, geometric patterns, pulsing sounds, dissolution of the self, going in the control room at the centre of the universe etc)

Trip to South America anyone?

maybe you could "buy-magic-mushrooms" online or something ...

Shpongle rock btw -

I am a shaman, magician
The sun is purple
3D dimensions
I am for mental extensions.

Somnambulist · 13 Sep 2011 at 18:45

simulatorman said:
Hello. Yes, it's Lisbon.

Funny how their highly successful implementation of a legalised drug policy that treats possession (in small quantities)/users/addicts as a health issue and not a criminal one is largely ignored by the rest of the Western world. After wasting so many billions of pounds failing to win 'the war on drugs' (a war on people, more accurately) for years and years, which could be used elsewhere - including on treatment for addicts, building up a criminal economy in the process, and then seeing someone do the opposite and it work well, it's all a bit head-in-the-sand isn't it?

Not to mention the wider debate to be had which covers freedom and the control of the state over its citizens over, amongst many things, what they can choose to put into their bodies. Of course there's a potential for risk and habit-forming or addiction with certain illegal drugs, but there are lots of things in life that are legal which are no different.

I can kill someone driving my car carelessly, get sucked into MMoRPGs so completely that it ruins my education/job/relationships/life or even kills me, I can drink energy drinks until I die from stiumulant overdose, buy a load of Codeine over the counter for the opiate content and die from that, eat myself to death, get addicted to exercise or extreme high risk sports, hell, if I drink enough water in a short enough amount of time I can kill myself... but when it comes to eating a mushroom or smoking something which can be done both responsibly and irresponsibly...

Something like the Krokodil problem in Russia (don't look it up, seriously, especially the video, it's grim) is a direct consequence of them having polar opposite drug laws to Portugal.