Why are tradesmen so expensive

  • Thread starter Thread starter fez
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tom_e said:
Time and fuel to pick up said parts.

Various insurances and trade body registrations, and family cars aren't free to run are they so there's still running costs.

Some will take the pee but there's plenty of costs people don't think about they just see the headline figure and then think they're paying themselves £100ph.
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Lets be honest mate youre never more than 10-15miles away from any trade supplier, I'm minutes away from about 5. A few miles in a diesel van...pence.

It does make me laugh these various bodies and registrations they have to be a part of, do they actually have to go back in and be assessed regularly? Like for instance a Mortgage Advisor does every 6-12months?

My example was a labourer, I must admit, that's the first line and they wont have any of these outgoings as theyre the labourers after all. But for some of these traders theyre on £300-500 per day. I drive my car to work, with car insurance etc etc. So I still have expenses myself and don't get anywhere near half that. In on an average british wage.

But like you say some, not all are taking the pee. Id say half are taking the pee, the remaining 50% half of them are sub standard. The market has been diluted in the past 5-10 years I feel. Makes it harder for the honest ones.
 
Cleisthenes said:
Although this is sometimes true, I can tell you that sometimes even with trade accounts just by going on amazon or another online retailer we can pick up the same part at the same cost if not cheaper. The main advantage of a trade account is having payment terms of over a month.
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This is true and what do amazon provide? Usually free postage, taking away the need to spend on that vans petrol etc.
Ive seen a standard 7.5-10% trade account you can get.
Ive also seen 50% on fencing suppliers, of which the bloke subcontracted out and made £500 in a few days for doing nothing himself. He was a cowboy as well (not the real cowboy lol)
 
Kingdom34 said:
This is true and what do amazon provide? Usually free postage, taking away the need to spend on that vans petrol etc.
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The engineer will still have to return to the property to fit the part though, a lot of the time we can't get the parts straight off the shelf

To add though, if a job uses say £5 diesel, we then have to pay a couple of quid probably per job for the van, a couple of quid for insurance, £15-£20 an hour to the engineer, the cost of just showing up is therefore probably around £40 once you take into account other costs so to charge £80 isn't that ridiculous imo. It is a business after all.
 
Cleisthenes said:
The engineer will still have to return to the property to fit the part though, a lot of the time we can't get the parts straight off the shelf

To add though, if a job uses say £5 diesel, we then have to pay a couple of quid probably per job for the van, a couple of quid for insurance, £15-£20 an hour to the engineer, the cost of just showing up is therefore probably around £40 once you take into account other costs so to charge £80 isn't that ridiculous imo. It is a business after all.
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Think outside the box, get the parts delivered to the customer house?!

I'm not disputing the small "turn up, done in an hour jobs" I'm focusing mainly the larger week long jobs, cost is spread across the week etc.

For instance my Patio work the material cost was probably well under £1k. So the £2-2.3k is all labour. For a weeks work. 1 day there was main man and 2 labourers, next 2 main man and labourer and then 2 days just the main man.
That's a lot of money imo but guess what he was the most reasonably priced overall.
 
Kingdom34 said:
Think outside the box, get the parts delivered to the customer house?!

I'm not disputing the small "turn up, done in an hour jobs" I'm focusing mainly the larger week long jobs, cost is spread across the week etc.

For instance my Patio work the material cost was probably well under £1k. So the £2-2.3k is all labour. For a weeks work. 1 day there was main man and 2 labourers, next 2 main man and labourer and then 2 days just the main man.
That's a lot of money imo but guess what he was the most reasonably priced overall.
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That does sound expensive. Where I work we're likely on the more expensive end of the spectrum and by my calculation we'd probably be charging £1500 or so for that labour. We aren't a patio company though to be fair so it's a moot point really.
 
Cleisthenes said:
That does sound expensive. Where I work we're likely on the more expensive end of the spectrum and by my calculation we'd probably be charging £1500 or so for that labour. We aren't a patio company though to be fair so it's a moot point really.
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It does fluctuate that's for sure, as I said in a previous post, someone wanted £5k. That's just daylight robbery
 
Cleisthenes said:
Although this is sometimes true, I can tell you that sometimes even with trade accounts just by going on amazon or another online retailer we can pick up the same part at the same cost if not cheaper. The main advantage of a trade account is having payment terms of over a month.
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I was talking to a guy the other day who said that the only place round here that really gives the trades any discount is lakes/Buildbase, and they are generally more expensive anyway, so even after the discount they are paying more than they would from the local builders merchant.

I am in middle of doing work on the house and I am buying from the same builders mechant he uses, and I can confirm prices are very low, for me Joe public buying small quantities of items
 
Ricardo said:
They all think they're highly skilled but there isn't a job I haven't been able to teach myself to a satisfactory standard in half a day on the internet.
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You obviously have very low standards for yourself...

Our local mechanics' are inundated with DIY-repair jobs from people just like you... and it funds my graphics card habit quite nicely.
So please, carry on!!
 
It's everywhere. People don't like helping people these days. End quality is poor and most people do as little as poss for as much as they can possibly charge.
 
Kingdom34 said:
It does make me laugh these various bodies and registrations they have to be a part of, do they actually have to go back in and be assessed regularly? Like for instance a Mortgage Advisor does every 6-12months?
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It's an absolute racket. A lot of them are only for 12 months and you don't even need to see anyone, they just want paperwork. You think tradesman over charge, they have nothing on these scum buckets.

Some of them are even run by the same body but have several organisations under a different name and you need to be a member of all of them if you advertise as a member of the body, some customers (commercial) won't touch you if you're not signed up to specific ones, so you may only need to be signed up with one but you'll have to be with them all just to claim you're with one of them.

Lots of pointless paperwork and time required to jump through the hoops, and that cost is on top of the actual fees they charge.
 
I do sometimes wish I picked a trade over being in IT.

The way people generally just tend to accept that sometimes a trademan won't show up at all, leave early, take the **** while on the job (smoke, swear, all things I would never dream of in front of a client).

It's just the fact tradesmen, even though sometimes self employed or running their own business, seem to think it's acceptable not to be professional. It's like because they can plaster a wall and I can't they reserve the right to swear, smoke and charge the initial quote, even if it takes them half the time. They can quote up for 5 days work, then turn around and finish in 2. I agreed to the price initially so I cough up.

Some people definitely do take the ****. I'm yet to find ANY tradesman that has come to my house that for some reason thinks it's acceptable to swear when I have kids in my house. They may teach their kids to swear from a young age but I dont.
 
Solus said:
It's like because they can plaster a wall and I can't they reserve the right to swear, smoke and charge the initial quote, even if it takes them half the time.
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Yup.
You want what they've got and that's all there is to it. If you don't want theirs, get it from someone else.
I wish I had that kind of freedom in my job - I'd have told a huge number of customers to get stuffed and fix it themselves, by now!!
 
Kingdom34 said:
Complete new kitchen/extended into half the garage, walls knocked down, various other jobs and finishes around the house. £10k. A team of Polish builders. Mid/Late 30's. Exceptional work. 2 weeks. Finish 10/10 and Value for money 10/10. At least 7-10k cheaper than anywhere else, also fixed a piece of fence, shelved out our old boiler cupboard and fixed the toilet in addition for free.

y experience over the past 10 years of house ownership. The young bucks want to blitz the job in a few days most of the time, the older generation want to take their time and the Europeans albeit ive only hired through word of mouth are amazing.
Anyone that says "they take our jobs" smarten up I say, you've been overcharging for years, if you haven't invested that money then youre a fool as you've had it good for too long and ripped people off.
Key is older generation and Europeans (Eastern) and you get good value. Young bucks just don't care and that I feel is portrayed in society too these days.
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I expect they may well have priced it pretty tight, a price that didn't include any potential extra work(s) that isn't apparent until the work has been undertaken i.e. it's impossible to accurately quote for potential structural issues hidden behind plaster or under floors.

I got fed up arguing against the toss with clients who obviously know better than my 20 years in the trade, all through watching TV shows like Homes under the hammer and youtube DIY videos. So I quote for worst case scenario to cover my backside and keep the ‘extra’ even if the job went perfectly smoothly.
 
ttaskmaster said:
You obviously have very low standards for yourself...

Our local mechanics' are inundated with DIY-repair jobs from people just like you... and it funds my graphics card habit quite nicely.
So please, carry on!!
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Presume much.
I've taught myself plastering, plumbing and electrics. I knew 99% of electrics due to my job the rest is just specific regulations. Its not like plastering is difficult just takes practice. I'm now easily capable of plastering a full room including ceiling without any issues, im virtually re-plastering my full house costing about £50 in materials per room.
Plumbing i found just ridiculously easy not sure why anyone pays for a trader for it, electrics maybe a little more that can go wrong but mostly easy. Plastering i would say is down to practice, how different substrates respond and so on, plus the hand work with the tools takes a bit of time.
I think people with the right mindset will pick it up.
 
I care less about the cost and more about the quality - so hard to ever find a decent tradesman for any cost really. Can't even trust the online sites with user reviews half the time.

Sometimes you are lucky and sometimes you get good word of mouth recommendations.
 
robj20 said:
Presume much.
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Half a day on the internet..... No, I don't presume much at all, from the sounds of it. :p

robj20 said:
I've taught myself plastering, plumbing and electrics. I knew 99% of electrics due to my job the rest is just specific regulations. Its not like plastering is difficult just takes practice.
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I 'taught' myself dovetailing in 3½ minutes from the internet... But I guarantee you that neither I nor anyone else will be anything like as good at it from those 3½ minutes as the guy in the video who's been doing it for decades.

What you mean is you learned about how it works... but even then, knowing how and having the skill to do it well enough are vastly different. Many things take more practice, skill and experience rather than simple knowledge, and without them in sufficient measures you will **** it up to hell and back.... perhaps even injure yourself in the process. That's just the way 'trade' stuff goes.

And even if it weren't, people are good at different things and some just don't have the head for it... Plenty of über smart folk here at work with degrees, diplomas, doctorates and all manner of fancy engineering qualifications, who can't even keep their shoelaces tied, much less sew up a hole in their shirt... and you can forget ironing said shirt!

robj20 said:
Plumbing i found just ridiculously easy not sure why anyone pays for a trader for it
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Because if a joint bursts while you're out and you come home to a day's worth of flooding, you have them and their insurance to claim off.
Because it's about more than just whacking an olive and compression fitting on a bit of pipe.
Because it means getting down on the dirty floor, behind the kitchen cabinets.
Because they don't want to do it themselves and can afford to pay someone else.

I've known someone drive over 45 miles and pay £20 just to have a trusted mechanic change his windcreen wiper blades. He's not thick or stupid in any way and I even found him a 2-minute video on how to do it. He could have gone down Halfords, bought the blades and fitten them himself in less time that it took to drive over.... It's just not what he wanted.
 
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