Why buy a Mac?

Energize · 25 Feb 2008 at 19:38

Caged said:
It seems that way to me, all you've done so far is told someone who works in IT that they don't know what a VM is and then stuck around shouting SANDBOX!! as the only rebuttal to any sort of comments regarding elegant security models.

Just because you spent the time setting it all up doesn't make it a desirable thing to do.

It was implied that an advantage of macs was not having to maintain upto date antivirus and antispyware programs, all I was saying that you don't have to have antivirus and antispyware on windows by using methods like sandboxes or extensions like noscript. So if the op wanted that feature he didn't need to spend more and buy a mac for it. I can't believe that such a horde descended on me for suggesting that, it's just an operating system. The reason I personally use sandboxie is because it offers protection against every virus, even new undetected ones without causing me any hassle.

3. Again it is a myth that Macs are expensive. Name a small, lightweight laptop with long battery life that you can get for £650. You can't do it. All you end up with is large, heavy rubbish.

HP Pavilion tx2050ea £699

1.92Kg (macbook 2.27Kg)
22.40 x 30.60 x 3.87 (macbook 22.7 x 32.5 x 2.75)

So not large heavy rubbish.

jonhuz · 25 Feb 2008 at 19:42

My parents are in the market for a new desktop and laptop. I've been a mac user for 3 years, recently built my first PC, which I subsequently sold on.
PC's don't have anyway near the level of intuitiveness that people respond to, which is why I'm recommending them a mac.

I've shown my old man multiple times, how to import pictures from his camera to the computer (PC) and each time I visit he's asking for me to go over it. I showed him it on a mac and he just gets it.

They find it incredibly difficult to maintain their PC in order to keep it running smoothly and have all kinds of nightmares when devices stop working or when they need to install things.

A mac is the perfect solution for a computer user who need things to work (as they should) with minimal effort, to concentrate on why they sat down on a computer in the first place (photo editing, movies, email...).

Caged · 25 Feb 2008 at 19:48

Energize said:
It was implied that an advantage of macs was not having to maintain upto date antivirus and antispyware programs, all I was saying that you don't have to have antivirus and antispyware on windows by using methods like sandboxes or extensions like noscript. So if the op wanted that feature he didn't need to spend more and buy a mac for it. I can't believe that such a horde descended on me for suggesting that, it's just an operating system. The reason I personally use sandboxie is because it offers protection against every virus, even new undetected ones without causing me any hassle.

The whole argument from the very beginning though was that the Mac provides an excellent experience out of the box, the post you originally replied to also said this. no one is denying that Windows can't be made secure, the point is it takes more effort than the majority of people can be bothered with.

Edit: Quite relevant while we're talking about user experiences - my Vista Business box just had Windows Update reporting that there were optional Updates for my machine. What were they, you ask? Why, none other than Windows Live Mail, Windows Live Family Safety, Windows Live OneCare, and some other assorted Windows Live rubbish - including an app to keep Windows Live applications up to date, when they're made by the company that made the OS - why not use Windows Update to keep them updated rather than just using it to install them when nobody asked for it? Firstly, I have no previous versions of these installed, why are you listing it in Windows Update? Secondly, why are you using the update engine to push out desktop applications based on an online presence which is widely regarded as a failure?

This sort of crap just doesn't happen on a Mac, and yes I can just opt to hide each update, but the point is that I shouldn't have to, and don't have to on OS X. If you add enough of these negative experiences up you reach the point where it's worth spending a bit more on a Mac so you don't have to put up with it.

Adrianr · 25 Feb 2008 at 20:10

LordSplodge said:
1. No games for the Mac is a myth. There are less but you can play WoW so, hey, who cares?
2. Small scale photo editing? Are you on crack or something? Photo editing is available out-off-the-box and big apps such as Photoshop run better on a Mac, never mind that Macs are standard in the design industry.
3. Again it is a myth that Macs are expensive. Name a small, lightweight laptop with long battery life that you can get for £650. You can't do it. All you end up with is large, heavy rubbish.

For non-techies who just want to get stuff done a Mac makes a lot of sense.

I'm sorry, but are you on crack? Have you ever used an iMac to edit large TIFF files? Are you one of those that assume because they're standard in the design industry that they will always run better no matter what?

CS3 is Mac native, big whoop. As soon as you get a PC with decent spec the lines are blurred so much its a moot point. If i'de blindly gone out and brought an iMac for the sort of editing i do i'de be very very annoyed. I know this because i use the same Mac i could have brought (20" iMac - £800) at college everyday, and its just nowhere NEAR as fast.

Yes for non-techies who want to get stuff done they do make a lot of sense. I'm simply saying if her brother heard photos and immediately jumped 'Mac', it's not ALWAYS the best solution for her needs.

Caged · 25 Feb 2008 at 20:13

Photoshop CS3 runs better on the Mac than on Windows, on the latest versions of each OS.

bigredshark · 25 Feb 2008 at 20:20

Caged said:
Photoshop CS3 runs better on the Mac than on Windows, on the latest versions of each OS.

Thats a lot to do with vista being an enormous white elephant shaped resource hog. Give windows it's due, Photoshop ran quite nicely on XP.

bigredshark · 25 Feb 2008 at 20:26

jonhuz said:
A mac is the perfect solution for a computer user who need things to work (as they should) with minimal effort, to concentrate on why they sat down on a computer in the first place (photo editing, movies, email...).

I think I'm responsible for starting the whole argumnet about sandboxes, and I'd like to end it using this quote.

This is the point I wanted to make, I use a mac at home because when I want to sit down and write a few emails, edit some photos and put some stuff on ebay etc...I believe a Mac is the lowest hassle way of doing it.

I complain bitterly about Mac performance (the fact you can buy a quad core dell for £600 but apple don't yet have a quad core consumer machine in their line up sucks) and I'm well aware of the power of Windows in the right environment (corporate networks) but when I get home I don't care about how cool my computer is, how much it overclocks or whatever, I want it to do a job and whatever does that job with the least hassle wins.

mortals · 25 Feb 2008 at 20:41

I feel sorry for the person who created this thread tbh :rolleyes:

with all the VM/sandboxie talk.

He actually didn't say anything about using virtual machines. All that was asked is why would you buy a mac.

Bits and pieces of this thread seem usefull but most of it seems to be some argument about using sandboxie :confused:

Energize: if you don't like macs then fair enough, but you're providing no information on why you should or shouldn't buy one.
All you've done is promote sandboxie to people who run osx :rolleyes:

PardonTheWait · 25 Feb 2008 at 20:45

Energize posts in this forum all the time.

He doesn't use or like Macs, I've honestly no idea why he does it, unless he's just so full of hate he needs somewhere to vent.

He used to be the same about LCD and CRT monitors, going out of his way to find threads to go mental in about how crap LCD screens were. I think he grew out of that and into this.

Fr0dders · 25 Feb 2008 at 20:58

Energize said:
Nothing to work out. With a sandbox installed programs automatically start up in a protected environment, no data gets out of there so no viruses can affect the system.

Some of the comments I hear sometimes makes me think people haven't used windows since 95.

you've missed the point entirely

why should you have to setup a sandbox just to be able to do a bit of webbrowsing and check your e-mails.

nobody is denying that windows can be run in a virtual environment and any changes made by spyware undone at the touch of a button. But quite frankly why bother when you can have a mac and not bother about all that ?

I work in IT as well, and i'll be damned if i can be bothered with that.

teaboy5 · 25 Feb 2008 at 21:02

bigredshark said:
He speaks the truth, I spent a long time using a PC at home but I'd never go back now.

I work in IT and I spend large portions of my day using windows servers but when I get home I don't want to spend forever playing with my home computer to get it working just so, I don't want to spend time downloading 2 dozen security updates every month or updating AV software or windows defender or whatever else to make sure I don't get spyware.

I just want my computer to work, check email, edit photos, play music - the usual stuff, and thats why I love my Mac, because it always works, no hassle and no effort. I could get a PC running perfectly but I don't have the time to play around anymore - my computer has to be functional.

Answering your original question, it'll be good for email, photos, office stuff. Downsides are it's more expensive than a equivilent PC usually, you may have difficulty getting some software for Mac (though there is a whole world of very cool software available)

And it won't play games very much...

These are not good points at all. They are pure rubbish.

I use a PC, and i have yet to do that when i come home. For example i come home and turn the computer on and off she goes. No trouble with anything. And any updates i have set to work away in the background.

Caged · 25 Feb 2008 at 21:06

teaboy5 said:
These are not good points at all. They are pure rubbish.

I use a PC, and i have yet to do that when i come home. For example i come home and turn the computer on and off she goes. No trouble with anything. And any updates i have set to work away in the background.

How can you possibly know whether his personal experiences are rubbish or not :confused:

Energize · 25 Feb 2008 at 21:20

mortals said:
Energize: if you don't like macs then fair enough, but you're providing no information on why you should or shouldn't buy one.
All you've done is promote sandboxie to people who run osx

I didn't say anything bad about the mac. :rolleyes:

Mohinder said:
Energize posts in this forum all the time.

He doesn't use or like Macs, I've honestly no idea why he does it, unless he's just so full of hate he needs somewhere to vent.

Actually I have a hackintosh but your not allowed to talk about them on the forums...

He used to be the same about LCD and CRT monitors, going out of his way to find threads to go mental in about how crap LCD screens were. I think he grew out of that and into this.

If you can't post anything useful, just spout crap about people.

schoey · 25 Feb 2008 at 21:20

macs are great........end of lol

bigredshark · 25 Feb 2008 at 21:22

teaboy5 said:
These are not good points at all. They are pure rubbish.

I use a PC, and i have yet to do that when i come home. For example i come home and turn the computer on and off she goes. No trouble with anything. And any updates i have set to work away in the background.

You've barely addressed any of my points aside from updates, and thats my whole point you've made again. You've set updates to run in the background, well I can't be bothered messing around setting that, I'd like to update my system when I feel the need and not even think about it any other time. Yeah, windows can do that if you set it to, but it can do a lot of things if you set it to - thing is I've got better things to do with my time than fiddle around getting windows to do what I want it to. I've found a mac does what I want out of the box - your mileage may vary but thats my experience - you want your PC to reboot after an update in the middle of an encoding task by default, fair enough!

Slinwagh · 25 Feb 2008 at 21:25

So if Macs are so good why aren't more so sold?

As for the out of the box argument, the second Microsoft bundle something into Windows the whole world bleats on about stifling competition, the irony of this is Apple binding you into iTunes the second you buy and iPod or of course forcing you to use a certain mobile provider if you want there phone.

There is less I personally can do on a Mac than on a PC.

For me

bigredshark · 25 Feb 2008 at 21:30

Slinwagh said:
So if Macs are so good why aren't more so sold?

As for the out of the box argument, the second Microsoft bundle something into Windows the whole world bleats on about stifling competition, the irony of this is Apple binding you into iTunes the second you buy and iPod or of course forcing you to use a certain mobile provider if you want there phone.

There is less I personally can do on a Mac than on a PC.

For me

Because OSX is relatively new compared with the progression windows has had from 95 onwards. I believe it's simple a lack of exposure to the product, sure it's not for everyone and every situation though.

By out of the box I meant the default settings make sense, nothing to do with bundled software.

Fair enough, for me there's far more, I think Aperture is a photo library without peer and I love the fact there's a native unix shell beneath it all, makes it far handier for work than beating cygwin into submission under windows.

schoey · 25 Feb 2008 at 21:32

the reason more arent sold is probably down to cost,the reason i switched was 'program not responding' far to often and blah blah blah has encountered a problem and needs to close.
also,i know i have plugged in my digital camera/mobile phone etc. why the hell does windoze have to make a stupid 'bong' noise to tell me??
i assume its cos it thinks i tripped up and plugged it in by mistake!!

jonhuz · 25 Feb 2008 at 21:43

Slinwagh said:
So if Macs are so good why aren't more so sold?

As for the out of the box argument, the second Microsoft bundle something into Windows the whole world bleats on about stifling competition, the irony of this is Apple binding you into iTunes the second you buy and iPod or of course forcing you to use a certain mobile provider if you want there phone.

There is less I personally can do on a Mac than on a PC.

For me

How is this helpful or even accurate?

Rhetorical question.

Slinwagh · 25 Feb 2008 at 21:46

jonhuz said:
How is this helpful or even accurate?

Rhetorical question.

Which bit is not accurate?