Why does the UK hate cyclists?

[Vonhelmet]

Quote each one of my posts, none show contemptuous ridicule or mockery... I can deal with road users and do on a daily basis.

how can you defend the way you treat people after lines like this?

You are a ridiculous hypocrite who's posts seethe with "derision".. Stop being such an antagonistic self worshiping imbecile.

Whatever. I have a low threshold when dealing with the ongoing antagonism shown towards cyclists, whereby people will merrily trot out their own prejudices, misinformation and impatience as some sort of valid argument.

You came out swinging about how cyclists hold you up on the back roads of your commute, while you’re avoiding the main route in that direction. Guess what, whichever road you choose you will have to deal with other road users. There is no beautiful empty open road out there that you can drive at 70mph all the way to work. You either take your chances on the main road with the dangerous cars or you go on the back roads and wait patiently until you can overtake the slow cyclists. Why should everyone clear a path for you and get out of your way? You can call me rude and derisive and I’ll call you selfish.

We’re all on the roads trying to get somewhere. We all have to put up with each other.

 

[FishFluff]

It's so weird. I've cycled in maybe 20 different countries and only in Britain have I ever felt unsafe. Even in California, where people drive literally everywhere, car drivers always gave plenty of room or waited behind to pass safely.

I've recently started cycling to the supermarket a few times a week instead of doing one big shop by car and the number of near misses I've had because of people driving like idiots is just ridiculous. Just this afternoon I had to pull the brakes on because a guy who was clearly on his phone overtook me then immediately turned left across me. What is it about modern day Britain that makes people treat each other like ****? Because it honestly isn't like this in other places.

 

[Vonhelmet]

The car is king, has been for 40 or so years. Only an utter pleb wouldn’t use a car, has been the message from the government for years.

 

[rIcK]

It is really interesting to read peoples opinions on this matter. When I cycle I usually wear a helmet, always have my lights on pointing at the ground and cycle on a mixture of roads and sometimes cycle pathways if they are good enough. Additionally I do walk through red lights if everything is clear then I will hop on my bike and continue.

Most of my cycling is to get me around, and every now again I will go out on a long ride around the Pennines on my nice bike for pleasure but 95% of my cycling is commuting and getting around as my main form of transport, anything up to about 20 miles. Similarly my girlfriend cycles around 20 miles to and from work each day.

I have lots of bikes, I own a car, my bikes are insured three times via home insurance, Cycling UK and specific bike insurance for my nicer bike.



Sadly I have also had plenty of accidents caused by both myself, drivers and pedestrians. Most recently this little beauty. This almost certainly wouldn't have happened in somewhere like the Netherlands or if I was driving.



I cycle the way I drive, which is giving way where necessary. Always stopping for more vulnerable traffic, in the case of my bike this will be pedestrians for example.

Yet sadly I get people shouting at me daily to 'buy a car', or 'get insurance' to 'Get in the ******* bike lane'. See these pictures to see why I don't usually cycle in the bike lane, or rather a pavement or some other random piece of inappropriate garbage.

Here is an album of what I pass and ignore daily near me:




And some other examples of typical naff cycle infrastructure:



Sadly there are poor examples of cycling as there are, driving or even Pedestrians. But the reason I made this thread was I was interested to see what people on these forums think. Most people here are typically well rounded and fairly intelligent people yet many of the same opinions of this random hatred towards quite simply another road user.

Uninsured, often lack of hi-vis or lights, no helmets, jumping red lights and crossings, refusal to use cycle paths where applicable.
All things that annoy me about a lot of cyclists, most are often OK but unfortunately the fact that anyone can buy a bike and jump onto the public highway and exhibit the above points is what infuriates me the most.

Why does a cyclist need insurance, the worst damage is usually a bit of a bruise or scratch even in the worst accidents the cyclist is usually only going to ruin his bike and him or herself.

Similar with helmets, pedestrians don't need them neither do car drivers? One of the safest countries for cycling in the world basically no one wears helmet or high viz.

And as I show above, the large majority of 'cycle lanes' are simply nuts and should be avoided.

According to my Dad, its because "They pay no tax or insurance, they're dangerous and they think they ******* own the road"
Thats his words not mine.

Your dad is wrong here, road tax isn't a thing VED is, and simply put is a tax on a car chugging out loads of garbage into the atmosphere, I own a Diesel and pay considerably more than most drivers will. Our roads we all pay for mostly in the form of council tax. Oddly my bike causes no damage to the road, so does that mean I should get a refund for the car I rarely drive?

Cyclists would get a far better rap if they started to take some responsibility for their actions. For example, guess who had to fork out a shedload of cash to repair my motor when some idiot decided he could fit in between me and and another car and proceeded to leave a gash the size of the grand canyon from rear quarter panel to front wing? Yes, that would be me since the **** just said 'tough ****', gave me the finger and rode off.
It's one of the main reason why I now practice the ancient art of bangernomics.

This guy was a *****, but there are plenty of pricks. Imagine if that was a car? You'd be paying a lot more than a bit of scratch damage.

Because they choose to take leisurely rides during rush hour, literally delaying hundreds of people.

The cars in the road during rush hour are what delays you not a single person riding a tiny bike.

The only issue I have with cyclists is the idiotic morons who do things like have no lights, wear dark clothing (including hoods) and then go off down an unlit road.
That and the organ donors who cycle with no hands on the bike texting their mates (presumably with a list of last request) or hands in pockets, often whilst riding without lights/reflectors and wearing dark clothing (I saw one of those idiots yesterday nearly go into the road, he didn't realise the turning he wanted was just ahead and nearly carried on from the pavement into the road before he got his hands on the handlebars).

Unfortunately I'm seeing a lot more cyclists these days who are riding hands free so they can use their mobiles, which is not a great idea if they want to live, especially when they're doing it on what is becoming an increasingly busy set of local roads.

This frustrates me, I hate this as much as the next person.

Cycling isn't method of transportation, it is activity, with a side effect of transporting you places.
The cyclist that won't use cycle lane.

Cycling and trains are basically my only method of transportation these days, driving is dreadful slow and makes me hate everyone else.

Here are some videos and pictures of how things can be done properly. I cycled the entire of the Netherlands earlier in the year it was quite an amazing place. But the attitude and cycling infrastructure is quite amazing. Do this and then everyone will use the cycle lanes. Yes that is small kids, elderly people basically everyone getting around without a car...

I dislike them on the road. Getting stuck behind a cyclist is beyond annoying, and it feels risky every time you want to overtake one leaving 'enough room' to be safe.

I would much rather they didn't clog up the roads and instead had to use the pavements/cycle paths. When I was young people would ride their bikes on the pavement without crashing into pedestrians (bells for warning) so I'm not sure why they now have to screw up road drivers.

Because legally a cyclist cannot use the pavement. I don't get this odd mentality of 'clogging up' the roads. When a 100x people on bikes takes up the physical space of around 5 cars.

 

[Vonhelmet]

What he said ^

 

[hornetstinger]

jubei said: ↑
I dislike them on the road. Getting stuck behind a cyclist is beyond annoying, and it feels risky every time you want to overtake one leaving 'enough room' to be safe.

I would much rather they didn't clog up the roads and instead had to use the pavements/cycle paths. When I was young people would ride their bikes on the pavement without crashing into pedestrians (bells for warning) so I'm not sure why they now have to screw up road drivers.

When you're young you aren't cycling at speed and doing many many miles.

It's illegal to ride on the pavement. Also it's impossible to ride from one town to another on the pavement. Unless you want to pay billions into digging up the whole country and for every single A and B road, have cycle paths.

Also if I crash into someone at 25mph I'll kill them. And the pavements are not suitable for road bikes.

Are you that dense?

 

[Drollic]

There's morons in both camps, however, I tend to side slightly more with the cyclists given that it's physically far more tiring and so inevitably, mistakes are probably more likely to be made. There's very little excuse sat on your arse in a car at a nice temperature. I'm a fairly keen cyclist and would happily say there's also plenty of elitist clowns on bikes.

I'm genuinely shocked that people think bikes clog up the roads in traffic though. Scary.

 

[FishFluff]

There's morons in both camps

I think part of the problem is that although a large portion of cyclists also sometimes drive, that doesn't happen the other way round. The vast majority of people who use cars exclusively probably can't remember what being on a bike even feels like.

 

[Blackjack Davy]

I think the UK car drivers just hate anything on the road that isn't themselves they behave just as badly towards other car drivers too (tailgating, aggressive driving, cutting people up, general lunacy aren't restricted to just cyclists).

I don't have a problem with them per se except when they run red lights take off up the pavement etc. I've been on a cycle myself and I know how bad motorists can behave towards them so I'm conscious of not doing the same.

Can anyone that has cycled in France, Belgium etc offer their experiences? Road cycling in Britain can certainly have its quirks, but I've got nothing to compare it to.

On a visit to Belgium once I was hugely impressed by their attitude to cycles and cycling in general. They had a separate marked off track near the road but very separate from it (bollards and kerbs and whatnot that very much kept car drivers where they're supposed to be, on the road) but was equally separate from pedestrian walkways. There were regular areas where you park bikes and even mopeds were allowed to use them (proper mopeds not small engine motorcycles) that didn't even require a number plate just a reflector on the back like a cycle. Coupled with the fact the most of the country was very flat probably made it a pleasure to cycle anywhere.

This country on the other hand is a joke painted on lines on the pavement or on the tarmac that are little more than a box ticking exercise "our city is cycle friendly... check".

 

[Deleted member 66701]

As for insurance, I'm pretty sure in most cases the damage a cyclist can do is so low most people can cover the costs personally if it comes down to it.

Yup - every time the government look into compulsory insurance for cyclists this is pretty much always the conclusion they arrive at. The potential benefits come nowhere near to outweighing the cost to implement and other disadvantages (such as putting people off cycling).

They always find the same about mandatory helmet use and licensing as well.

Tax, licensing, insurance and helmet use will never be compulsory for cyclists in this country, I don't know why motorists waste their breath moaning about it.

 

[Jean-F]

As a London driver and keen cyclist I see it from both sides. Few things make me more annoyed than seeing cyclists running red lights because they think that they don't apply to them, and they should have the book thrown at them like any other road user. Equally, whilst I'm cycling being almost brushed by passing traffic doing 30+ mph, or even intentionally forced into the kerb or parked cars (I'm looking at you black cab drivers ) is just plain dangerous driving and they should also be prosecuted for it.

I don’t think that cyclists ignore red lights because they think that a red light doesn’t apply to them, I think it’s much more likely that they KNOW, with some certainty, that the Keystone Kops in London have terminal myopia where cyclists are concerned.
As for the Black Cab drivers who have so obviously annoyed you, as a retired Black Cab driver, I apologise for my compadres mistakes, and for what it’s worth, assure you that I was never knowingly guilty of ‘leaning’ on a cyclist.
If someone hailed me, I’d immediately check the rear view mirror, switching in a split second to the n/s door mirror, checking for bikes.
If one or two were there, I’d indicate my intention, and slow to a virtual halt, waiting for the bike(s) to pass on my inside, very often, as they were safely going by, they’d yell abuse at me, maybe because thought that I might move into the kerb, or maybe for merely having the temerity to WANT to move into the kerb to pick up a fare.

 

[Quartz]

“Many if not most”, eh? I’m sure that can be corroborated with something besides your own personal confirmation bias.

Actually, it got so bad with Deliveroo riders that I wrote and complained to them. I didn't make it clear that I am speaking as a pedestrian, rather than a driver.

 

[Selekt0r]

I don’t think that cyclists ignore red lights because they think that a red light doesn’t apply to them, I think it’s much more likely that they KNOW, with some certainty, that the Keystone Kops in London have terminal myopia where cyclists are concerned.

Whatever the reason - running a red on a bike is just plain stupid, as you will likely come off worse in any collision.

As for the Black Cab drivers who have so obviously annoyed you, as a retired Black Cab driver, I apologise for my compadres mistakes, and for what it’s worth, assure you that I was never knowingly guilty of ‘leaning’ on a cyclist.
If someone hailed me, I’d immediately check the rear view mirror, switching in a split second to the n/s door mirror, checking for bikes.
If one or two were there, I’d indicate my intention, and slow to a virtual halt, waiting for the bike(s) to pass on my inside, very often, as they were safely going by, they’d yell abuse at me, maybe because thought that I might move into the kerb, or maybe for merely having the temerity to WANT to move into the kerb to pick up a fare.

No personal slight intended to you, or the many Black Cab drivers who are careful and considerate drivers (I have friends who are, so not wanting to 'tar all with the same brush'). It's just that probably >70% of the occasions where a driver has (in my opinion) intentionally tried to push me into the kerb or parked cars have been cabbies

I think this underlines part of the problem though, this debate has become so emotional that it's difficult to have a discussion on how to improve the situation.

 

[Vonhelmet]

Actually, it got so bad with Deliveroo riders that I wrote and complained to them. I didn't make it clear that I am speaking as a pedestrian, rather than a driver.

That actually plays into something else I’ve noticed - some of the worst road users are those who are paid to use it and/or who benefit from getting somewhere quickly. White van men, taxi drivers, delivery drivers, delivery cyclists... all have an incentive to make their deliveries quickly, deliver their passengers quickly to pick up the next gate, get to the next job, etc.

 

[Jean-F]

Malevolence wrote earlier on, of a cyclist who attempted to ride through a too narrow gap, and scratched his car from rear panel to front wing, then cycled on, saying, “Tough ****.”
Someone replied, “Imagine if that had been a car instead of a cycle, it could have been much worse.”
I bet that made Malevolence feel a whole lot better about the cyclist.

Someone else praised the cycle infrastructure in The Netherlands to the skies, comparing it favourably to London and the U.K.
FWIW, The Netherlands is 41,540 square kms, The U.K. 243,600 square kms, the population of The Netherlands is 17,000,000, The U.K. is 64,000,000, hardly surprising that it’s easier to get around over there on a bike, than it is over here.

 

[Vonhelmet]

Someone else praised the cycle infrastructure in The Netherlands to the skies, comparing it favourably to London and the U.K.
FWIW, The Netherlands is 41,540 square kms, The U.K. 243,600 square kms, the population of The Netherlands is 17,000,000, The U.K. is 64,000,000, hardly surprising that it’s easier to get around over there on a bike, than it is over here.

I do think the ship has sailed as far as segregated infrastructure goes. Our roads are too narrow in our cities and that can’t be unpicked, hence we get the abysmal 50 yards of paint that does nothing but narrow the carriageway. Given cyclists can’t be split off elsewhere, drivers are just going to have to learn to put up with them, or make use of alternatives like public transport if they can’t manage that.

 

[Rroff]

I do think the ship has sailed as far as segregated infrastructure goes. Our roads are too narrow in our cities and that can’t be unpicked, hence we get the abysmal 50 yards of paint that does nothing but narrow the carriageway. Given cyclists can’t be split off elsewhere, drivers are just going to have to learn to put up with them, or make use of alternatives like public transport if they can’t manage that.

Yeah - one of the places I had in mind when posting about roundabouts earlier:

Spoiler

red is the marked cycle route - blue is the path many cyclists take instead which due to the dedicated lane markings, etc. causes chaos with vehicle traffic especially when a good number of cyclists just act like the cars aren't there.

There is also another route by going further to the right than the red line goes in the image and around under the road going off at the bottom and back on about 300 yards further up on the left - which is the way I used to go when cycling to work many many years ago.

 

[Vonhelmet]

I’m about to start commuting into Manchester by bike and I’m looking at routes in. I’m hoping to find some off-road paths to avoid some really nasty junctions, but every time I look at cycle paths they’re just ludicrous, and would have you going way round the houses. I’d rather mix it up with the cars than add time to my journey going round some ludicrous cycle path.

That and every time you get to a hard junction the cycle paths mysteriously stop. Like they’re fine putting in cycle lanes on long straight stretches of road, but when you get to a really dodgy junction, like with a motorway or something, the paths evaporate right when you need them.

 

[Deleted member 66701]

Yeah - one of the places I had in mind when posting about roundabouts earlier:

Spoiler

red is the marked cycle route - blue is the path many cyclists take instead which due to the dedicated lane markings, etc. causes chaos with vehicle traffic especially when a good number of cyclists just act like the cars aren't there.

There is also another route by going further to the right than the red line goes in the image and around under the road going off at the bottom and back on about 300 yards further up on the left - which is the way I used to go when cycling to work many many years ago.

**** me, I'd take the blue route as well! What a stupid layout.

 

[One More Solo]

Drivers are so shortsighted that they can’t see the benefit 100s of commuting cyclists bring to them. I would say put all those cyclists in cars for a day and see what it does for journey times, but most drivers would just irrationally blame some other minority on the roads. In summary, people are idiots.