Why don't they make smaller OLED TVs?

mid_gen said:
Someone will cater to the market for smaller OLED screens eventually, I'm not in a hurry. Maybe when someone starts making monitor-sized OLED panels and gets costs down that'll solve the problem.
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The questions though are (1) who, and (2) what's in it for them?

Look at the manufacturers left in the (European) TV market. You've got the four majors: Samsung, LG, Sony and Panasonic. All of them had a go at developing OLED. Only LG had the combination of the will and the resources to stick it out. Samsung went its own way with QLED instead. Panasonic and Sony now buy the LG screen panel for their own TV development. Finance wise, Sony and Panasonic's TV business is in pretty poor shape. They haven't got the money for such a gamble.

LG competes with Samsung's QLED product with its own Super UHD LED TV range. I can't see much of an incentive for LG to throw a load of cash at small OLED production when they're busy trying to recoup the huge investment made just to get OLED off the blocks.


Who does that leave?

Vestel, TPV, HiSense etc...... the manufacturers who put other peoples badges on product they make under license.

TPV is the name behind Philips, and they already use the LG OLED panel

HiSense is interested in growing its volume TV business, and that's why it bought Sharp's factories in continental America and it has just done a deal to produce Hitachi in the US too. The Sharp deal is mired in legal wranglings though. I can't see them throwing a heap of cash at smaller OLED TVs.

That leaves either the minor players or Vestel. That's a company that planted its flag in OLED territory back in 2015, but so far, apart from showcasing some products at the major trade events, TTBOMK there's yet to be any movement forward to have some retail product. They did show an OLED at IFA (European trade show, Sept 2017), but it was a 65" panel.


That takes care of the "Who?", so what about the "What's in it for them?"

Of the existing manufacturers, Vestel is possibly the strongest known candidate. However, their forte has been undercutting their rivals rather than forging new markets. A small OLED would be a high-value niche-market product with no direct competitor ranges to price against. That's not where Vestel have been to-date.



What about the PC market?

The laptop screens market is a graveyard as far an new OLED offerings for 2018. There's some tablets I think with OLED, but that's the printable version which maxes-out at 40x50cm AFAIK. We know the story about Dell. So, for anything involving a static image then OLED has a bit of a problem.





Can anyone here see a way forward?
 
another nail (temporary?) that hinders their development for laptops (smaller bounding panel sizes)

energy consumption : the abl systems in oled have been criticized for limiting nits, and I prdominately thought they were used for lifespan isssues, but power is equally responsible -
if they removed abl on oled are they between lcd and plasma for power consumption ?
(obviously heat dissipation not helped either if consumer wants a picture frame form factor)

also https://www.monitornerds.com/oled-pc-monitors/
 
jubei said:
See that just looks odd to me, like a weird small tv stuck on a large cabinet, like you get in a travel lodge :p I would defo be having a massive tv centered on that cabinet :O
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I probably would have a few years ago, but these days the TV is only on 5-10% of the time we're in the living room...and that's usually when I'm using TuneIn on the FireTV :)

Music is much more enjoyable through a good sound system, so I'm happy to spend on that. Films, in terms of enjoyment, don't really improve with a better screen. Sure there's much tech nerd appreciation to be had, but a good TV show isn't any better entertainment on a giant OLED versus a modest little LCD imo :)
 
...but if you only have a 42" space ?

Panasonic will have a new 42" IPS fx600 but unfortunately only 60Hz, unlike their earlier 3d/120hz non 4k ips's (that I own)

mid_gen said:
I probably would have a few years ago, but these days the TV is only on 5-10% of the time we're in the living room
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agree - and tv content frequently so poor that can be multi-tasking, so with volume off, just need the subtitles large enough to see at a glance.
 
My worry is that might convince makers nobody wants decent quality screens elsewhere for TVs and monitors and they might scale back on OLED research and manufacturing :/
 
lucid said:
T
Of the existing manufacturers, Vestel is possibly the strongest known candidate. However, their forte has been undercutting their rivals rather than forging new markets. A small OLED would be a high-value niche-market product with no direct competitor ranges to price against. That's not where Vestel have been to-date.
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You'd have to point a gun to my head & make me before I buy a Vestel telly. :mad:
 
superdumper said:
I heard Apple are planning to launch the new iPhones with OLED screens, so hopefully this means OLED will become a norm pretty soon.
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OLED has been "a norm" for years. You just haven't noticed. Making screens for small appliances and personal care products has been going on for a decade. Philips used OLED screen technology in some of its premium personal shaver products. Read more here and herehttps://www.audioholics.com/hdtv-formats/organic-led-displays-oleds-the-next-trend

Of course, these are both a different type of OLED screen. The product capabilities and the size of the fabrication plant is very different from what's required for the TV market.
 
Until the screen burn issue can be totally removed, then OLED has this inherent problem - it was enough to put me off, no way I'm paying £1500+ on an item that could in theory be ruined 12 months later. Manufacturers willing to warrant against the issue would at least show they have faith in their own product. However for the past two years with OLED TV's the manufacturer has said "Yes, there is a potential issue - but tough if it happens".
I've got fingers crossed that OLED will be actually ready for mass-market in 5-6 years time when next I'm looking for a new TV or MicroLED (or similar) will have instead become the technology that everyone is using.
OLED with their inherently "dark" display and potential of screen burn - both enough to put me off such a purchase this time around.
 
indeed - one of the enablers for oled monitors/small-tv market is reducing burn-in/shift (not eliminating) , and it will be interesting to monitor iphone X issues
https://www.zdnet.com/article/iphon...-eliminate-burn-in-on-oled-screen-says-apple/, also
Pixel 2 XL screen burn-in: Google investigates this latest display issue | ZDNet

not sure how apple has phrased product guarantees, in this respect, but below was interesting
Just get AppleCare+ if you plan to keep it that long and bring it in for a warranty replacement if/when it burns in. And if Apple declares burn in as a part of everyday use and doesn't cover it, just take some sand to it, scratch it to hell, and pay $29 to replace the screen. Do this once a year during the two years of AppleCare+ and the screen should be good as new by the time you move onto the next phone.
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With the lack of Bezels on an OLED the phyiscal size of the TV is a lot smaller. I went from a 50" to 55" tv, and it didn't increase in size at all. Would this not be the case for some of you as well?
 
sHo0sH said:
With the lack of Bezels on an OLED the phyiscal size of the TV is a lot smaller. I went from a 50" to 55" tv, and it didn't increase in size at all. Would this not be the case for some of you as well?
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Yeah that is a good point, though something I've taken into account. My current 40" has massive bezels so I can certainly go larger than that, but I think my limit is still about 49" (I've looked at the physical measurements of the current screens).

Thanks all again for your replies, I think I understand the situation now, created more of a debate than I expected.
 
Jokester said:
My worry is that might convince makers nobody wants decent quality screens elsewhere for TVs and monitors and they might scale back on OLED research and manufacturing :/
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That’s not going to happen mate, when the new 10.5 gen production facility come on line in 2020 is when you will most likely see smaller oled sizes, atm one sheet of oled substrate yields 3 65” oled panels, when the new production facility come on line they will get 8 panels out of a sheet of oled substrate, which will also bring prices down a lot.
 
stoofa said:
Until the screen burn issue can be totally removed, then OLED has this inherent problem - it was enough to put me off, no way I'm paying £1500+ on an item that could in theory be ruined 12 months later. Manufacturers willing to warrant against the issue would at least show they have faith in their own product. However for the past two years with OLED TV's the manufacturer has said "Yes, there is a potential issue - but tough if it happens".
I've got fingers crossed that OLED will be actually ready for mass-market in 5-6 years time when next I'm looking for a new TV or MicroLED (or similar) will have instead become the technology that everyone is using.
OLED with their inherently "dark" display and potential of screen burn - both enough to put me off such a purchase this time around.
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Like with plasma you will only get screen burn if you abuse the tv, I have had an oled tv for over 5 years now and haven’t seen any IR never mind screenburn. If your tv was on sky news or sky sports news every waking hour then yes your tv would burn in but I would class that as abuse, also there is nothing dark about my oled or any other oled in SDR it hits the same brightness level (200 nits) as my Sony in the bed room and in HDR it can hit 750-800nit highlights
 
Have we reached peak size ? if 55" (or 65" - really!) is the biggest size that folks can put in newer homes, and manufacturers cannot pursuade folks 8k is worthwhile, then they do need to expand smaller screen market segment - for folks with tv's in kitchens, bedrooms too, where viewing angles are more difficult and oled wins.

.. but, we, have had similar discussion several years back and the manufacturers did not respond yet.

[ for oled they are nonetheless, not making significant pixel structure changes in 2018 for fun, it is for ageing/colour shift and maintaining brightness when black frame insertion used,
maybe led/plasma went through similar evolution for other criteria - colour accuracy/latency ]
 
I have a 65B6 OLED and could easily stick a 77" in my house

Cost prohibitive though - If you are buying new, then £5000 extra for another 12 inches. I can't be spending that.

2019 will be a good year for OLED IMO, as they will have HDMI 2.1 and therefore 4k/120hz
 
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