Why the lack of females in technical roles

Soldato
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This is the reason.
Men that are completely slaved to their genitals.
Sex objectification by men.

No, it was a big difference compared to the grumpy middle aged old men we usually get. Who won't even smile when they turn up on site, this lady looked she actually enjoyed being an engineer.

Also, note I said very lovely young lady, not very sexy young lady. I know how to address women in my career correctly.
 
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Soldato
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You still think lovely is a proper way to describe a female work colleague.

I rest my case.

That is why there are none anyway.

Well I would hate to work along side you or organization if that's your negative attitude. By the sounds of it you need to be in a place where you need more diversity.
 
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Man of Honour
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The wage gap too plays a part. Why bother to train and learn to be technical as someone else yet receive less pay?

Which pay gap is that? Are you referring to the pay gap where people in the same company, doing identical roles, are paid different amounts and therefore the company breaking the law? Where are huge numbers of highly public prosecutions for illegal employment behaviour for this wage gap? Or are you referring to the pay gap where people in the same company doing different roles are paid different amounts?

IT is a relatively well paid role. I would have thought that if pay were a major factor then it would attract more women?

We know that salary cost is indeed a major factor in who a company employs for techinical roles. This is evidenced by the massive amount of offshoring that has taken place over the last 10 to 20 years. So if cost is such a massive factor, and if women are paid so much less for the identical role in the same company, then why aren't comapnies employing more women than men? Why are so many more men employed then women if women are cheaper and just as interested in the job? Why don't companies want to reduce salary costs by employing women... if it were true?

Also as demonstrated by that google leak some time ago, some men have outdated views, belittling women in technical roles. An environment hostile to the inclusion and advancement of women plays a part, suppressing their talents.

Progress is being made but there is still a way to go for equal representation.

The Google "leak" wasn't someone belittling women. It was someone suggesting that men and women are interested in different things in life and wanting to change the environment to improve that. What part of the memo was belittling women? If we're not allowed to discuss the possible causes of the difference for fear of people making such accusations then we will never understand the cause, and never fix it.

However even if what you said was true it doesn't explain why so few women are studying IT related subjects in education. At that early stage they wouldn't have yet experienced the suggested "belittling". That wouldn't happen until they reached the workplace. So if what you suggest was true then we'd see massive numbers of women join IT as juniors and then massive numbers leave again (with many cries of how awful the industry is to women). But we're not seeing that. What we're seeing is a massive disparity in men and women entering the industry.






While there have never been as many women in technology roles as men, what I find fascinating is that the percentage of women was actually much better until around the 1970's. Some of the early pioneers of Computing such as Ada Lovelace and Grace Hopper were women. After that period the balance started started declining. So in an era where equality has improved in the western world, the balance of women has declined. That doesn't make sense. Surely improved employment laws and improved attitudes in the workplace should have resulted in a better balance? But we're not seeing that. Despite better employment laws and better attitudes the balance is worse than in the early years of Computing.

However, if we look at where junior people are recruited from over time, then perhaps it may help explain one of the causes. In the 1940's, 50's, 60's and until the 1970's there wasn't much formal education in IT. Computers were rare and if a company wanted someone to work on them, possibly as a programmer or other technician, then they probably couldn't hire someone already trained. They would usually have to find someone in their company who showed an aptitude for it, and further train them. But Since the 1970's we started seeing formal education in IT. Nowadays it's very hard to get a role in IT without a degree.

What I don't yet understand is whether the number of women going into formal IT education is lower because of the courses, or because the industry itself holds little interest for them. The world isn't yet perfect. But it just doesn't make sense to me that in an era of much improved employmant law and an era of much improved workplace attitudes, that we are seeing a lower balance or women in the industry than when times were far worse in those areas. So something else is likely to be the cause.

From my own experience I recall having more female colleagues in 1987 when I started my career than I do now. But I think what's more marked is that I have very few female colleagues in development teams now; most of the women in my office are in support, service, management and organisational roles.

EDIT: Also thinking back to about five years ago I was on the graduate recruitment team for a large American bank working in London. I can only recall interviewing a very small number of women but a large number of men. The stage before that was a technical test and the stage before that was an online application. I don't know why there were few women that reached the interview stage but they certainly weren't being discarded at the interview stage; they either didn't each it or hadn't applied for it.
 
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Caporegime
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Well I would hate to work along side you or organization if that's your negative attitude. By the sounds of it you need to be in a place where you need more diversity.
Was that even an answer to the subject? Sounds like regular managerial bs speak when confronted with stuff you don't like.

Also diversity, don't make me laugh.

Anyway let's leave it be. I think everyone can make up their own minds from what's been written. This got moved from GD so needs to be less ofc topic.
 
Soldato
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Was that even an answer to the subject? Sounds like regular managerial bs speak when confronted with stuff you don't like.

Also diversity, don't make me laugh.

Anyway let's leave it be. I think everyone can make up their own minds from what's been written. This got moved from GD so needs to be less ofc topic.

I gave an answer to the subject and you came out with "Men that are completely slaved to their genitals. Sex objectification by men, That is why there are none anyway" Because I referred an external female engineer as "lovely"

Me and others in this thread have stated we see many in the field we work in IT. There was no need to quote me with your silly response.

You don't think so..then that's fine.
 
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Soldato
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Things that blokes never say:

"Happened to be very lovely young gentleman :)"

What did you mean by "lovely"?
 
Soldato
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OK sorry. I bet you are a lovely person really.

Why the lack of females?

Because the industry is full of middle aged nerds that think describing a female in the work place as 'a lovely young lady' is a compliment, rather than creepy and patronising.
 
Associate
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It depends what is meant by technical - I've met/worked with lots of women with R/SQL/Excel skills alongside in-depth statistical knowledge, although markedly fewer who work on data processing, warehousing and presentation via web. I guess that in this instance, there are two different routes of entry into merging fields of work.
 
Man of Honour
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Girls don't really get into computers and gizmos/gadgets as much as guys. Some do, but the pool is much smaller so those who actually get jobs is even smaller still. Plus it depends if the female in question is comfortable working in a male dominated field, this might put some off.
 
Soldato
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Well let's hope he learnt something today.

Yep, not to work with your kind of mindset :p

Thankfully I work in a nice organisation were the gender balanced is fine and I'm not the grumpy old IT nerd.

Im sure if I said very lovely young guy/man/dude. You would have kept your post to yourself.
 
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Caporegime
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It depends what is meant by technical - I've met/worked with lots of women with R/SQL/Excel skills alongside in-depth statistical knowledge, although markedly fewer who work on data processing, warehousing and presentation via web. I guess that in this instance, there are two different routes of entry into merging fields of work.

yeah you'll find more women on maths degrees than say computer science and tbh.. it is the maths background that is more important for some of the more advanced "data science" rather than "data analyst" roles* - the technical side can be picked up informally or doesn't have to be too technical if in more of a researcher/scientist role using the likes of R, Matlab, python etc.. with 'engineers'/quant developers/whatever employed to actually implement whatever ends up in a production system.

*not that either term are really formally defined
 
Soldato
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Im sure if I said very lovely young guy/man/dude. You would have kept your post to yourself.

"lovely young man"

That's something a grandmother would say about a chap coming round to mend her boiler.

Can you seriously not see why what you said could be considered inappropriate? Really?
 
Soldato
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"lovely young man"

That's something a grandmother would say about a chap coming round to mend her boiler.

Can you seriously not see why what you said could be considered inappropriate? Really?

Yeah, if I walked upto to her in work and said it to her face, which I don't recall me saying I did.
 
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