Why the Virtual-Reality Hype is About to Come Crashing Down

[andybird123]

Then I'm not sure what it is that you are saying isnt good enough. The resolution is good enough to be able to read all the menus and UI in something like warthunder, project cars, elite dangerous, rainbow six, battlefield etc., so what about any of these games is too simple?

Budget cuts is probably the best dedicated VR game Ive tried so far, and that is essentially an FPS/stealth game, the mechanics for changing weapons and inventory is one of the best and most intuitive Ive seen in any game, VR or not

 

[Pottsey]

Then I'm not sure what it is that you are saying isnt good enough. The resolution is good enough to be able to read all the menus and UI in something like warthunder, project cars, elite dangerous, rainbow six, battlefield etc., so what about any of these games is too simple?

Budget cuts is probably the best dedicated VR game Ive tried so far, and that is essentially an FPS/stealth game, the mechanics for changing weapons and inventory is one of the best and most intuitive Ive seen in any game, VR or not

Well I didn’t like the motion controls finding them just as bad as the Wii, Kinect and other motion controls. Going though menus, changing weapons was all awkward. All a big problem for going mainstream.

The resolution was good enough to read menus and UI but it was still very poor. Pixels could be very clearly seen badly enough to remind me of playing 640x480/800x600 old pixelated games. I didn’t like the way everything look pixelated and anything moving into the distance lost definition again a problem for going mainstream. I can see this being fixed but not within 5 years. EDIT: This was the big one that put me off buying VR. If this wasn't so bad I would own VR by now.

Budget Cut looks more like a giant step back for gaming. It’s ok for about 10minuets but there is no real depth, little freedom of movement having to teleport from spot to spot and it’s certainly not a game to play and unwind/relax after a hard days work. For the most part that’s what VR seems to be aimed at, short experiences not in depth games. I don't see the short experiences as being enough and motion controls are rubbish for in depth games.

EDIt2: There is nothing wrong with Project Cars or Elite Dangerous as I said before cockpit style games work really well in VR. As much as I love spaceship cockpit style games, SIMS games based in cockpits are not that popular. VR is great for this type of game but its not enough to go mainstream.

 

[andybird123]

the big mistake a few of these things are making is trying to make you use the controller as a pointer, the best VR games use the track pad as the menu, thats a mistake of a few developers and not the entire genre as a concept

resolution will totally be solved within 5 years, they are already demo-ing 4k displays, which again going from past demo to device timelines should be in gen2 devices - alongside foveated rendering it becomes a non-issue

Maintstream isnt just about games either, as I keep pointing out, within 10 years these devices will be cheap enough and light enough that a few pairs will give the family the equivalent of a 100inch TV for a fraction of the price and you then get a front row seat to major sports events, or whatever other immersive media people want to watch together or seperately without one person hogging the TV

 

[Del-Dredd]

If you want to check out Wireless low latency, look at what the FPV racers use sure it is not high def but is good enough to race round a course through gates and trees etc at 40mph.

I think the problem with controllers is just you, they are completely intuitive and if they are not to you it is not the controllers fault.

You obviously have not tried Budget Cuts or Vanishing Realms etc.

 

[dlite]

If you want to check out Wireless low latency, look at what the FPV racers use sure it is not high def but is good enough to race round a course through gates and trees etc at 40mph.

I think the problem with controllers is just you, they are completely intuitive and if they are not to you it is not the controllers fault.

You obviously have not tried Budget Cuts or Vanishing Realms etc.

They use analog radio links. Ie. Same tech that was used by ancient crt tv:s 20 years ago.

 

[Zeeflyboy]

They use analog radio links. Ie. Same tech that was used by ancient crt tv:s 20 years ago.

actually not entirely true...

That is by far the majority, but the technology is there. There are several low latency HD links, but the most notable (not least because they have produced a small unit suitable for racing size quads) is amimon and their connex range....

Their HD link is capable of 1080p 60fps, uncompressed, over 1km of range and "zero" latency. They define Zero as less than 1ms transmission delay, which is pretty hard to argue with.

 

[Pottsey]

“I think the problem with controllers is just you, they are completely intuitive and if they are not to you it is not the controllers fault.”

A lot of people don’t like motion controllers. Just look at the Kinetic, Wii and whatever the Playstation one was called. They are niche products for a reason which is how I see the Vive being based on the current showing of games and apps. Based on watching other people in our local VR center its not just me that has problems with motion controls.

“You obviously have not tried Budget Cuts or Vanishing Realms etc. “

No I haven’t played Budget Cuts as it looks like it has all the elements I don’t like in VR games. As my VR time is limited I decided to try the decent VR games and give BC a miss. BC looks to have no real depth to it, rubbish graphics, no freedom of movement it very much reminded me of the very old games where you can only move from waypoint to waypoint instead of walking though doors or down corridors.

I have money put aside for next gen VR but it BC and Vanishing Realms are the future of VR I am really not interested. They are gimmicky and simple not my idea of VR gaming at all. Both are alright as 10 min experiences but not what I would choose for gaming after work. Once the wow factor wears off games like BC are rubbish. VR needs more if it will go mainstream.

As a spy games BC looks like a giant step backwards. Give me Deus Ex or Alpha Protocol any time over BC. Games with depth to them like those two or games like Elite are what will make me buy VR not rubbish like BC and Vanishing Realms.

 

[Safetytrousers]

I was fine using my PS4 controller with the Rift. That wasn't the reason I sold my Rift.
But when the alien appeared in the intro videos I did want to give it a hug. I can well imagine that the motion controllers could give a really good virtual pet experience that a gamepad couldn't.

 

[Rroff]

Maintstream isnt just about games either, as I keep pointing out, within 10 years these devices will be cheap enough and light enough that a few pairs will give the family the equivalent of a 100inch TV for a fraction of the price and you then get a front row seat to major sports events, or whatever other immersive media people want to watch together or seperately without one person hogging the TV

In 10 years time a good 100" TV/wall sized display of some kind will probably be a fraction of the price they are now as well mind.

I think Pottsey hit the nail on the head with one of his comments - despite what some of the fans think the reality is VR is still quite some way from where your average Joe is going to come home from work and slap it on to unwind it is still a long way from the accessibility of a console or PC game with keyboard and mouse or even just watching a movie with friends, etc.

 

[andybird123]

100" displays have never really come down in price, they tend to be the top of the range model with all the latest bells and whistles, plus they are always a niche market.

If VR goes mainstream they will be a huge market, so per unit costs fall dramatically.

 

[andybird123]

No I haven’t played Budget Cuts as it looks like it has all the elements I don’t like in VR games. As my VR time is limited I decided to try the decent VR games and give BC a miss. BC looks to have no real depth to it, rubbish graphics, no freedom of movement it very much reminded me of the very old games where you can only move from waypoint to waypoint instead of walking though doors or down corridors.

its the complete opposite, it scales really well to whatever play space you have available, you can actually walk down halls and through door ways if your space allows, or you can make extensive use of the teleport feature if you don't

it is by far the cleverest use of VR I have tried to date and as you go through the game you get more complex puzzles and more weapons - and it is just the free demo that is out now, the full game isn't even out yet

the graphics have a certain style, and the demo is designed to be run on a 970, again the full version will have extra options and super sampling available

for how strong of an opinion you have against VR, you seem to be horribly misinformed on the actual details you are arguing against

 

[Pottsey]

“100" displays have never really come down in price, they tend to be the top of the range model with all the latest bells and whistles, plus they are always a niche market.”

Well I agree on a niche market but it’s not due to the price. I setup my 100” screen for well under the cost of a VR setup. It’s easy and relatively cheap to setup a 100” screen only cost me £400 and there are cheaper options.
VR is too anti-social to become the main way to watch things. It’s hard to cuddle up to a partner watching TV or nibble on snacks, talk and drink with VR. I don’t really envision a bunch of mates all sitting around with VR helms watching a football match as VR ruins the social aspect.

“its the complete opposite, it scales really well to whatever play space you have available, you can actually walk down halls and through door ways if your space allows, or you can make extensive use of the teleport feature if you don't”

That’s precisely the problem with current VR “if space allows” this is where VR falls down at least with the Vive style walking about VR games. You can only walk down halls and though doors if you have corresponding doors and room in the real world. Otherwise you have to rely on emersion breaking features like teleporting around. Having to move around a typical game map via teleporting room to room seems like a giant step backwards.

I really hope the future of gaming isn’t teleporting room to room instead of walking about. The movement problem for Vive walking about VR games is another one of the big sticking points to stop it going mainstream.

 

[Rroff]

I don’t really envision a bunch of mates all sitting around with VR helms watching a football match as VR ruins the social aspect.

Once we can mix in augmented reality with virtual reality I think this kind of thing will take off though - there are some pretty cool ways football matches could be enjoyed with the right implementation hehe.

 

[andybird123]

Well I agree on a niche market but it’s not due to the price. I setup my 100” screen for well under the cost of a VR setup. It’s easy and relatively cheap to setup a 100” screen only cost me £400 and there are cheaper options.
VR is too anti-social to become the main way to watch things. It’s hard to cuddle up to a partner watching TV or nibble on snacks, talk and drink with VR. I don’t really envision a bunch of mates all sitting around with VR helms watching a football match as VR ruins the social aspect.



That’s precisely the problem with current VR “if space allows” this is where VR falls down at least with the Vive style walking about VR games. You can only walk down halls and though doors if you have corresponding doors and room in the real world. Otherwise you have to rely on emersion breaking features like teleporting around. Having to move around a typical game map via teleporting room to room seems like a giant step backwards.

I really hope the future of gaming isn’t teleporting room to room instead of walking about. The movement problem for Vive walking about VR games is another one of the big sticking points to stop it going mainstream.

I was talking about 100" TV's. I cant imagine how bad your projector must be if it cost £400.
For social events VR/AR can be supplementary to a TV. You are being incredibly narrow minded.

Oh my god. The game scales, if you have space you can make use of it, if you dont you can still play the game, lean through doors/windows etc. Theyve made teleporting a key mechanic of that particular game.

You complain about needing space so i point out some games where you dont neccessarily need a lot of space to move about, so you complain about not being able to move about, so i point out you can move about so you complain about needing space...

Other games do use traditional fps type movement using the touchpad to move, so if that is your thing there are games that do that too.

Mainstream isnt games. Gaming is always niche, even at 40million units a year, PC GPU's and consoles are not considered particularly main stream compared with phones or TV's

 

[Rroff]

I cant imagine how bad your projector must be if it cost £400.

You can pickup a few different Optoma and BenQ 1080p projectors at around £400 that are very highly rated - even my ageing HD70 720p (85") still looks very good - can pick those up for next to nothing now. The world has moved on from the times when you had to spend 4 grand to get a good HD projector.

 

[andybird123]

You can pickup a few different Optoma and BenQ 1080p projectors at around £400 that are very highly rated - even my ageing HD70 720p (85") still looks very good - can pick those up for next to nothing now. The world has moved on from the times when you had to spend 4 grand to get a good HD projector.

Erm, dont you hve to sit pretty far away for 720p at 85" to look good?

 

[Pottsey]

For social events VR/AR can be supplementary to a TV. You are being incredibly narrow minded.”

No I am not being narrow minded. I am being realistic on how VR is likely to go over the next 5 to 10 years. I agree it can be supplementary but only to a very small subset of people. I love the idea of VR as much as you it’s just my views on the scale VR is going to take off is much smaller then what you have and I also think it will take longer.

I was talking about 100" TV's. I cant imagine how bad your projector must be if it cost £400.

Well Roff beat me to it; I have a highly rated Optoma which runs at native 1080p for around £400 with Bright vivid Colours , 2500 ANSI Lumens which I turn down as its too bright, 3D support, good black levels. I don’t see the point in large TV’s. Projectors are cheaper, more than good enough image and a bigger screen. I don't see VR as a useful alternative to big 100" screens because of how cheap and good projectors are.

“You complain about needing space so i point out some games where you dont neccessarily need a lot of space to move about, so you complain about not being able to move about, so i point out you can move about so you complain about needing space...”

The problem when playing games with walking about is as of yet there is no good transition between the areas that I have seen. You can move around 1 single room fine but once it comes to moving around other rooms, walking about VR falls apart. A few games use tricks like teleporting and making the room change but those are gimmicks that only go so far. Who wants to play a dozens different games where you have to teleport from room to room for every single room. That’s going wear thin fast. So far I have not come across any games that smoothly move room to room while walking about. Perhaps you could suggest some so I can try then at my local VR center? Out of what I have tried I am not impressed.

Beyond the price my two biggest concerns with VR is the hardware isn’t good enough and doesn’t look like it will be good enough any time soon. There isn’t enough good worthwhile content. Only short experiences. That’s why I skipped this gen VR even though I badly wanted one. At the moment you can pretty much play most of the worth while content in short sessions at local VR centers. There are a few things that are worth it like Project Cars and Elite but not enough.

 

[Pottsey]

Erm, dont you hve to sit pretty far away for 720p at 85" to look good?

720p does look bad at 85" to 100" well bad might be to strong a word as its watchable but you really need 1080p content at those large screen sizes to maintain a sharp image. I stopped buying DVD because of the size problem. Still projectors are not a fixed size you can always shrink it down to a small 50" screen or what ever you need. Personally I just leave mine at 100" sometimes sitting in the middle of the living room, sometimes at the back.

 

[andybird123]

720p does look bad at 85" to 100" well bad might be to strong a word as its watchable but you really need 1080p content at those large screen sizes to maintain a sharp image. I stopped buying DVD because of the size problem. Still projectors are not a fixed size you can always shrink it down to a small 50" screen or what ever you need. Personally I just leave mine at 100" sometimes sitting in the middle of the living room, sometimes at the back.

I just find it a bit odd that someone who complains about the practicality and space requirments for VR is a proponent of projectors. Which I gave up on because it wasnt very practical and took up too much space.

And yeah, you are atill writing off the whole of VR based on a couple of demos. There are more games than the ones youve tried if you seriously think this is a big issue.
Not all VR games use teleporting or room switching.

 

[Pottsey]

I just find it a bit odd that someone who complains about the practicality and space requirments for VR is a proponent of projectors. Which I gave up on because it wasnt very practical and took up too much space.

And yeah, you are atill writing off the whole of VR based on a couple of demos. There are more games than the ones youve tried if you seriously think this is a big issue.
Not all VR games use teleporting or room switching.

Too much space? Instead of buying a bracket to mount a TV on a wall I used a bracket and mounted the projector on the ceiling. It takes no longer to install then a TV mounted on a wall, takes up a tiny amount of space and is completely out of the way when not in use. Seems far superior to TV setups to me.

I haven’t written VR completely off based on a couple of demos. What I said was its not good enough yet, based on my experience at our local VR center. The hardware isn’t good enough yet and the majority of games and apps are lacking in long term use. There just isn’t enough good content that lasts a decent amount of time. Not all games use teleporting or room switching but I have yet to come across a good one for walking VR.

VR is a long way from being ready. We need much better hardware, much better content, content that lasts longer then short experiences. More in depth content. So no I am not writing it off, instead I am waiting until its much better and then will buy it.