Sorry, wasn't directing that at you... Outcast's attitude reeks of elitism.
Why would anyone use Windows?
- Thread starter Skeptic
- Start date
Sorry, wasn't directing that at you... Outcast's attitude reeks of elitism.
I've got arch linux, leopard and vista ult x64 side by side here and prefer windows for most tasks tbh.
The mac is very slick to use with the expose + mx revolution combo but the task bar at the bottom is fancy and useless
Best gui ever imho is Gnome, has the top bar like OS X and bottom one for apps like windows.
Windows all the way here.
sid
The mac is very slick to use with the expose + mx revolution combo but the task bar at the bottom is fancy and useless
Best gui ever imho is Gnome, has the top bar like OS X and bottom one for apps like windows.
Windows all the way here.
sid
Many people seem pretty biased to the side of the fence they are on...
Many people buy their computers with windows pre installed, all drivers present and correct and don't do much else to it until they buy a new computer. If Ubuntu came pre installed on a computer all drivers should be preset and correct there too. Only it comes with a bucket load more software pre-installed. In this situation there would be little difference between using Windows and Linux. Just stick a windows style start button in there and they would probably find their way around fairly easily, have most of the software they need from the off and have a more secure OS. I was interested to see someone say Ubuntu has as big a footprint as Vista. I have a lot of software installed on my Kubuntu installation, much more than I do on Windows and it uses a total of 2Gb - 3Gb. And is more responsive on 1Gb of RAM too.
Installing Linux from scratch can be a different issue entirely but it is very dependent on distro. I used to have a laptop where the wireless was a real pain to setup. Until I installed Linux Mint. It asked for the windows driver during installation of the OS and my wireless was good to go. Things were very different in Unbuntu... But as far as drivers go I have only ever had any real issues with wireless. I'm not saying there are no issues with other hardware but they are now less common than some people would have you believe.
But it's true that for some software that only works in Windows there is no Linux alternative that provides the same level of features. Photoshop is a great example of that. Also many people require completel compatibility with their work meaning the need to use Windows.
There is also the fact that many people have learned to use Windows weather at work or at School, so thats all they know. And when they use Linux they can't grasp that Linux is not Windows. If you put a brand new user in front of a good Linux OS they would find it no harder to learn to use than Windows. Windows doesn't have a better GUI or easier to use, it's simply that it's what most people know. The tough thing for Linux is breaking that cycle.
I have a Vista box and a Linux box and I only ever use the Vista box for gaming. For everything else I use Kubuntu and for your average joe that browses the web, plays some music maybe and uses a little productivity software it's every bit as good and as easy to use as Windows. For other uses however it can be difficult at times, no doubt. But then so can windows for the non-tech user.
Many people buy their computers with windows pre installed, all drivers present and correct and don't do much else to it until they buy a new computer. If Ubuntu came pre installed on a computer all drivers should be preset and correct there too. Only it comes with a bucket load more software pre-installed. In this situation there would be little difference between using Windows and Linux. Just stick a windows style start button in there and they would probably find their way around fairly easily, have most of the software they need from the off and have a more secure OS. I was interested to see someone say Ubuntu has as big a footprint as Vista. I have a lot of software installed on my Kubuntu installation, much more than I do on Windows and it uses a total of 2Gb - 3Gb. And is more responsive on 1Gb of RAM too.
Installing Linux from scratch can be a different issue entirely but it is very dependent on distro. I used to have a laptop where the wireless was a real pain to setup. Until I installed Linux Mint. It asked for the windows driver during installation of the OS and my wireless was good to go. Things were very different in Unbuntu... But as far as drivers go I have only ever had any real issues with wireless. I'm not saying there are no issues with other hardware but they are now less common than some people would have you believe.
But it's true that for some software that only works in Windows there is no Linux alternative that provides the same level of features. Photoshop is a great example of that. Also many people require completel compatibility with their work meaning the need to use Windows.
There is also the fact that many people have learned to use Windows weather at work or at School, so thats all they know. And when they use Linux they can't grasp that Linux is not Windows. If you put a brand new user in front of a good Linux OS they would find it no harder to learn to use than Windows. Windows doesn't have a better GUI or easier to use, it's simply that it's what most people know. The tough thing for Linux is breaking that cycle.
I have a Vista box and a Linux box and I only ever use the Vista box for gaming. For everything else I use Kubuntu and for your average joe that browses the web, plays some music maybe and uses a little productivity software it's every bit as good and as easy to use as Windows. For other uses however it can be difficult at times, no doubt. But then so can windows for the non-tech user.
Last edited:
@FooAtari the problem with preinstalling Linux and getting it working is, I've had this myself, updates bugger everything. I took me about an entire weekend to get my Gigabit Ethernet card to work in Ubunutu then about 2 months later I installed some updates and lost all network connectivity. I spent about 3 hours trying to figure what had happened or how to rollback the update which i managed but lost sound at the same. So I gave up and reclaimed my partition Linux was using and i work as a software developer so i am a fairly technical person.
As for those saying manufactures should invest more time and money in creating Linux drivers, i would put a lot of money on companies not doing because there is no de facto standard for libs. Lets look at the state of Flash on Linux, it has gotten itself in to a rather poor state and if you Google the reasons why it's because of libraries incompatibles so unfortunately a major software house is taking heat over this. When in all truth it's not their fault. So why as a device manufacturer would i want my hardware to only partially function or cause kernel panics because you are using version 0.8.12.6 of a particular library rather than 0.8.12.9 when your Joe average consumer has no clue what any of that ******** means.
What Linux needs to do before it can even think about going main stream is coming up with a reference design for distros and sticking to it. But that will never happen since it's all about choice.
As for those saying manufactures should invest more time and money in creating Linux drivers, i would put a lot of money on companies not doing because there is no de facto standard for libs. Lets look at the state of Flash on Linux, it has gotten itself in to a rather poor state and if you Google the reasons why it's because of libraries incompatibles so unfortunately a major software house is taking heat over this. When in all truth it's not their fault. So why as a device manufacturer would i want my hardware to only partially function or cause kernel panics because you are using version 0.8.12.6 of a particular library rather than 0.8.12.9 when your Joe average consumer has no clue what any of that ******** means.
What Linux needs to do before it can even think about going main stream is coming up with a reference design for distros and sticking to it. But that will never happen since it's all about choice.
It certainly does and is pretty narrow minded.
Appsenser hits one of the nails on the head - there's too much choice. Aren't IBM working with Ubuntu at the moment to try and get things moving?
I can honestly I have never had a single problem with system updates across all the distros and hardware that I use. Except when using Updates to upgrade the OS to the next version, that didn't go at all well. Obviously everyone's mileage varys, but unless the driver was installed from the repos system updates should have little effect on them. Talking of updates, thats another useful feature. Updates don't only keep your OS up to date, but a lot of the software is kept up to date also.
You mean like Windows Update does to all Microsoft products. It's not reasonable to expect them to distribute third party updates because of the additional QA effort required by MS to ensure pushing out an update to Abode Reader, as an example, doesn't break anything.
The drivers i had were not in the repos, it was an NDIS wrapper around a Windows driver. I lost the sound because the updates installed 'bug fixes' for the audio stack that had conflicting dependencies to the NDIS stuff. Once again proving too many cooks spoil the broth.
Soldato
- Joined
- 27 Mar 2004
- Posts
- 14,081
- Location
- Between Realities
I found that to be quite awesome too.
Not reasonable? Perhaps that's an unfair expectation. But can do it Linux all the same. In Kubunutu Firefox gets updated, Pidgin, VLC, OpenOffice, the Gimp etc etc etc. They are all kept up to date along with the OS. My point wasn't that MS didn't keep their own software up to date, but some Linux distros keep a lot of other software update in addition to the OS.[/quote]
I see. These issues happen, it's not like you never get conflicts in Windows. However fixing ndiswrapper issues can be a pain in the neck. Conflicts and hardware issues will always be a problem with you have infinite software and hardware combination. The only people in a position to attempt to avoid these issues are Apple. At least they control the hardware the OS runs on.
The problem with this from an MS point of view is, they take the blame. The recent iTunes 8 causing crashes in Windows is a good example here. iTunes installed an updated problematic driver, without permission or mention in the installer may i add, who do you think got the support calls about this? When your Aunty Dora was sat in front of the computer and it crashed when she plugged in her iPod do you think she thought bloody Apple or bloody Windows?
Linux is aimed at a whole different type of user who can make these important distinctions.
They did in the past and, i'm sure, we all remember DLLHell from a few years ago but the problem it was updating libraries that were installed and required by the ndiswrapper. This wouldn't have been an issue in Windows because WDF and the strong versioning and tight control of the shared libraries.
Yup, which is unfair. But on the same note Linux gets blamed for poor hardware support and complicated work around. When it's the hardware vendors that are to blame.
Again, if there was better support for Linux perhaps this would have never been a problem. Ndiswrapper is hardly an ideal solution.
I'm not trying to come across as some kind of Linux Apologist. I have nothing against Windows. I think Vista a decent OS and Linux does have many issues. Just trying to bring some reasond arguments in instead of the usual "M$ and Windblows suck" and "Linux has no good software and crap hardware support"
I'm not saying Windows is "WOMGZ AMAZINZ" it has it's problems but Linux's hardware support is mainly its own fault and down to the attitude of "we don't like the direction this lib/app has taken FORK YOU!" taken by the community.
I like Linux and i want it to work but it is not ready for the big times and it is not gaming that is holding it back it is general usability and maintance issues. Some of the zealots seriously need to take a step back and look at the state of it. It truly is a case of too many Indians not enough Chefs.
One point.. that goal doesn't exist. Linux developers make the platform how they want it, they don't care that it might not be the most popular.
That's not strictly true.. it used to be, but with companies like Canonical and RedHat shoving money into upstream development focussing on major UI improvements and the end user experience there is more and more of a drive towards breaking into that desktop environment.
Associate
- Joined
- 12 May 2005
- Posts
- 460
- Location
- Cambridge, or somewhere else in the world
Although I'm joining this discussion late, I am a long time windows user, from back in the day of DOS to windows 3.1 and 3.11. I currently run Vista 64 Ultimate on my main desktop, linux on my media centre for three years and Ubuntu / Kbuntu on my laptop for about 6 months. I am erring more and more towards Linux. I just find windows a bit naff these days.
Associate
- Joined
- 3 Mar 2006
- Posts
- 1,765
- Location
- wakefield
Soon as i could install say steam for example on linux easyly and no hassle and all my games id switch in an instant
I have used both Linux and Windows, however currently using Vista 64bit, as most poeple have said, i bung my disc in walk away come about 30 mins later, im at a desktop, drivers installed etc with my apps installed, using a custom Vista build disc.
Now I am sure you can do this with *nix but I guess you have to mess about with it a lot to do this, where you can just use Vlite and some scripts to achieve the same thing.
The other gripe I have with linux is how if it doesn't work, you have to crawl multiple sites looking for the answer.
Also I have given up on using Ubuntu since even to this day, it will not boot normally, have to boot in safe mode, mess about with a config etc, and this is with a 8800GTS not excatly a highend card now, yet Fedore works with no problems.
How can an OS built with kernel but with extra bits on top function so differently on the same machine with the same hardware?
Gaming wise, mostly play Eve but then there is a nix client for that so not much of a problem for me, i also play some others.
I might dig out an old drive and give dual boot ago again with Fedora.
Then virtual box and install a stripped down XP for Photoshop, newsgroups, etc
Kimbie
Now I am sure you can do this with *nix but I guess you have to mess about with it a lot to do this, where you can just use Vlite and some scripts to achieve the same thing.
The other gripe I have with linux is how if it doesn't work, you have to crawl multiple sites looking for the answer.
Also I have given up on using Ubuntu since even to this day, it will not boot normally, have to boot in safe mode, mess about with a config etc, and this is with a 8800GTS not excatly a highend card now, yet Fedore works with no problems.
How can an OS built with kernel but with extra bits on top function so differently on the same machine with the same hardware?
Gaming wise, mostly play Eve but then there is a nix client for that so not much of a problem for me, i also play some others.
I might dig out an old drive and give dual boot ago again with Fedora.
Then virtual box and install a stripped down XP for Photoshop, newsgroups, etc
Kimbie