Why would anyone use Windows?

[GarethDW]

Nikumba, sounds to me like you're currently much more comfortable using Windows than you are using Linux. Not saying that's a good thing or a bad thing, it's just how your post comes across.

Now, with that in mind, it seems that your comment about using VLite suggests that you know how to do something in Windows but not in Linux. I'm not familiar with what VLite is, but I'm guessing it allows you to bastardize the original Windows installation CD to create an easier installation path, with all required drivers and 3rd party applications pre-installed. If this is correct, then there is an equivalent product in Linux called Remastersys which allows you to do pretty much the same thing. I've got no experience of using VLite so I can't comment on how easy or difficult it is to use, but I find it hard to believe it's easier than using Remastersys - to create your personalised distro you simply call the following command:

sudo remastersys backup MyCustomDistro.iso

Sure, if you want to delve further into it, Remastersys offers you much more control via a wealth of options, but the command above can be used on its own to do what I understand you've been doing using VLite and a bunch of scripts.

Similarly, you may need to crawl multiple sites if you encounter a problem with Linux... but that's indicative of your level of experience with Linux, which will differ from mine, or my wife, or your boss, or Linus Torvalds, or Bill Gates, etc... I'm sure that when you started using Windows you were as much in the dark with it as you currently are with Linux - nobody knows how to use an OS without learning stuff first (sometimes the hard way), and that goes for Windows, Linux, OS X, OS/400, CP/M, etc...

 

[Nikumba]

Gareth,

Thanks for letting me know about Remastersys, but yes vLite is a program that lets you strip stuff out of a windows install.

Since my post, I have actually put 8.04 on and using it now to post this message.

Just need to get it all setup now, find a decent IM client etc

Kimbie

 

[Outcast]

My daughters use Pidgeon. It's installed by default in Ubuntu.

 

[GarethDW]

Gareth,

Thanks for letting me know about Remastersys, but yes vLite is a program that lets you strip stuff out of a windows install.

Since my post, I have actually put 8.04 on and using it now to post this message.

Just need to get it all setup now, find a decent IM client etc

Kimbie

Cool, cheers for the info about VLite, by the way... I'm gonna look into that as I've not got round to installing Vista yet, so anything that can make it as quick and easy as possible is good.

 

[Dj_Jestar]

That's not strictly true.. it used to be, but with companies like Canonical and RedHat shoving money into upstream development focussing on major UI improvements and the end user experience there is more and more of a drive towards breaking into that desktop environment.

Linus and co have never set out to "beat Microsoft/Windows" and neither does Ubuntu or any of the others quoted. They have simple set out to be usuable to their needs, and in the case of Ubuntu, just more usable.

Lindows arguably did set out to compete with Windows. That didn't last long when it came to the courts, though.

 

[dayloon]

Haven't read all the replies but i find this comment in your original post funny :

Bought a external HDD - plugged it in and it worked straight away

You haven't used windows in a while have you ? Plugging in an external HDD and it working straight away is not a novalty

 

[Nikumba]

Haven't read all the replies but i find this comment in your original post funny :



You haven't used windows in a while have you ? Plugging in an external HDD and it working straight away is not a novalty

For the most part, but Windows is still stupid enough to give your external drive a letter that is in use by a network share

Kimbie

 

[bigredshark]

For the most part, but Windows is still stupid enough to give your external drive a letter that is in use by a network share

Kimbie

Now that is a pain, I can't believe that wasn't sorted a while back.

As an alternative perspective, I think windows is actually making progress on the server side, previously LAMP was the absolute rule but I've deployed a few systems on IIS and SQL2005 recently and I really like SQL2005, the management suite is slick and performance is excellent.

Still wouldn't use it on the desktop regularly though, OSX is still my preference on the desktop, Windows at work and linux (Redhat for now, though I'm thinking of moving my workstation to Solaris soon) for scripting work...

 

[FatRakoon]

I agree wit hthe very ealry post regarding the half-dozen EMailers / Browsers etc... This really does bug the nipples off me, its a similar thing with Media players...

I just want a nice pretty MP3 player... Oh, lets say... WinAmp style?, but I dont want a massive player that takes up half my screen and spends its life downloading covers, and lyrics and other such junk that I dont want.

We ( in general ) have slagged Vista off with its "Are you sure" policy of making sure that the user is sure that they are sure they want to do what they just told the PC to do, and it has been a big deal... Yet, Linux has been that stupidly irritating for yonks!, and in fact, I moved over to ubuntu recently and I am so sick of having to enter my password that I am now considering forgetting about the whole thing.

 

[FooAtari]

My daughters use Pidgeon. It's installed by default in Ubuntu.

Pidgin And its the best IM client going IMO, unless you want video...

I've got no experience of using VLite so I can't comment on how easy or difficult it is to use, but I find it hard to believe it's easier than using Remastersys - to create your personalised distro you simply call the following command:

Code:

sudo remastersys backup MyCustomDistro.iso

Sure, if you want to delve further into it, Remastersys offers you much more control via a wealth of options, but the command above can be used on its own to do what I understand you've been doing using VLite and a bunch of scripts.

So what does that command actually do? Make an install disc for your current install?

 

[Outcast]

I agree wit hthe very ealry post regarding the half-dozen EMailers / Browsers etc... This really does bug the nipples off me, its a similar thing with Media players...

I just want a nice pretty MP3 player... Oh, lets say... WinAmp style?, but I dont want a massive player that takes up half my screen and spends its life downloading covers, and lyrics and other such junk that I dont want.
.

apt-get install xmms

(you can even use winamp skins.)

 

[GarethDW]

So what does that command actually do? Make an install disc for your current install?

Yep, that's pretty much it.

This Wikipedia page sums it up pretty succinctly: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Remastersys

 

[BillytheImpaler]

Linus and co have never set out to "beat Microsoft/Windows" and neither does Ubuntu or any of the others quoted. They have simple set out to be usuable to their needs, and in the case of Ubuntu, just more usable.

Not so for Ubuntu. Take a gander at bug No. 1 in the Launchpad bug tracker: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/1

Linus on the other hand did it just for fun and educational fulfillment.

 

[GarethDW]

Linus on the other hand did it just for fun and educational fulfillment.

Indeed, "Just for Fun" is even the name of his autobiography. Anyone else read it? It's quite an interresting read.

 

[Dj_Jestar]

Not so for Ubuntu. Take a gander at bug No. 1 in the Launchpad bug tracker: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/1

Linus on the other hand did it just for fun and educational fulfillment.

Link is timing out for me, but I'm going to assume it says something along the lines of "[it] should be like what [it] does in Windows"?

If so, that's not necessarily a direct competition/attempt to replicate. It could be that they have decided that whatever it is, is done well in Windows and that would be the logical thing to do.

Yes, I'm playing devil's advocate.

 

[Kitejumper]

You answered it yourself. Gaming.

and the wifes would need retraining!

KJ

 

[Garp]

Link is timing out for me, but I'm going to assume it says something along the lines of "[it] should be like what [it] does in Windows"?

If so, that's not necessarily a direct competition/attempt to replicate. It could be that they have decided that whatever it is, is done well in Windows and that would be the logical thing to do.

Yes, I'm playing devil's advocate.

Actually, it's not. It's a much better worded & targeted bug.

Bug #1 (liberation): Microsoft has a majority market share

Microsoft has a majority market share in the new desktop PC marketplace.
This is a bug, which Ubuntu is designed to fix.

Non-free software is holding back innovation in the IT industry, restricting access to IT to a small part of the world's population and limiting the ability of software developers to reach their full potential, globally. This bug is widely evident in the PC industry.

Steps to repeat:

1. Visit a local PC store.

What happens:
2. Observe that a majority of PCs for sale have non-free software pre-installed.
3. Observe very few PCs with Ubuntu and free software pre-installed.

What should happen:
1. A majority of the PCs for sale should include only free software like Ubuntu.
2. Ubuntu should be marketed in a way such that its amazing features and benefits would be apparent and known by all.
3. The system shall become more and more user friendly as time passes.

 

[Dj_Jestar]

Fair play. That is a concerning bug, though.

I still disagree that this is what Linux is about. It should not be changed to cater the "masses." If they want to use it, fine. If they want to carry on using windows, fine. Don't mess up Linux just to compete.

 

[Rhys]

I have now got a USB stick with a PC LINUX OS MINI ME 2008 install. I have installed

Firefox 3 - Web
Amarok - Music
SMPlayer - Video
Open Office - Writing letters

It really works nicely and I am going to start showing my family it as an alternative. I think as previously stated if all new PC's came installed with a standard linux image it would meet the majority of peoples requirements.

 

[almichev]

Fair play. That is a concerning bug, though.

I still disagree that this is what Linux is about. It should not be changed to cater the "masses." If they want to use it, fine. If they want to carry on using windows, fine. Don't mess up Linux just to compete.

For Gods sake man, it's not about messing up your precious Linux. It's about change and choice. Ultimately there could be a Linux Distro that will be marketed with problems ironed out, probably more streamlined regarding the amount of software included, better driver support and the basics would work on it no probs. There will always be other distros out there for people to tweak and develop.