Will the rog swift get a free sync update?

melmac · 7 Jan 2015 at 15:22

jigger said:
We've been over this already. How can I put this in a way a fanboy can get his head around it... The industry has *opted in* so FreeSync = insidious take over of all the monitors. You can't call off the dogs of war?

Sorry, But you are wrong about this, the industry hasn't opted for it yet. It's AMD that's pushing this in the hope that it succeeds

Martini1991 said:
Are you really calling me a fanboy? I own an AMD R9 290X. You have no comprehension of the subject material however.

Again, Freesync is AMD's proprietary technology, the industry haven't opted in to Freesync. They've opted in (And even then, it's not like the *industry* have opted in. We've got a few monitors, that's early and very positive success thus far, but it's not the *industry*. It's still an optional part of the VESA specification. For the industry to have fully backed adaptive sync, it would need to be mandatory, but that's besides the point, and I'm not posting to be negative) to adaptive sync.

Again, you don't know the subject matter, so you can stick the "We've been over this" because what you're typing is factually incorrect, and the only person struggling to get his head around anything, is you, seemingly because you lack the comprehension.

Basically this

Apache14 · 7 Jan 2015 at 15:36

melmac said:
Sorry, But you are wrong about this, the industry hasn't opted for it yet. It's AMD that's pushing this in the hope that it succeeds

Well VESA (Video Electronics Standards Association) have added adaptive sync (the tech that AMD use in freesync) optionally to the display port standards 1.2a and 1.3.

Athough I cant say that its been adopted by the industry .... but it it has a very good chance its made mandatory in a future display port version.

Gsync isnt a standard in any sense of the word

jigger · 7 Jan 2015 at 16:46

melmac said:
Sorry, But you are wrong about this, the industry hasn't opted for it yet. It's AMD that's pushing this in the hope that it succeeds

Maybe you should read the thread again

melmac · 7 Jan 2015 at 17:34

Apache14 said:
Well VESA (Video Electronics Standards Association) have added adaptive sync (the tech that AMD use in freesync) optionally to the display port standards 1.2a and 1.3.

Athough I cant say that its been adopted by the industry .... but it it has a very good chance its made mandatory in a future display port version.

Gsync isnt a standard in any sense of the word

But the argument isn't abut Gsync, it's about adaptive sync been adopted by the industry. So far it hasn't. It's only an optional spec that's been pushed hard by AMD. One company doesn't mean that that the industry has opted in.

jigger said:
Maybe you should read the thread again

Maybe you should, because you don't seem to understand anything that has been said so far. I am all for Adaptive sync and hope intel gets on board which in turn might force Nvida to get on board at all. But no matter how you look at it to say the industry has opted in is a bit of a stretch.

And unless Intel or Nvidia get on board then adaptive sync is never going to be industry standard because all it means is that monitor manufacturers will only be able to sell to AMD owners.

Martini1991 · 7 Jan 2015 at 17:35

Only AMD are supporting active sync currently , but it's an optional standard of the VESA spec for 1.3 DP and 1.2a, but AMD have little to do with it now from that point of view. But it's down to AMD for it being there.

jigger · 7 Jan 2015 at 17:45

melmac said:
But the argument isn't abut Gsync, it's about adaptive sync been adopted by the industry. So far it hasn't. It's only an optional spec that's been pushed hard by AMD. One company doesn't mean that that the industry has opted in.

Maybe you should, because you don't seem to understand anything that has been said so far. I am all for Adaptive sync and hope intel gets on board which in turn might force Nvida to get on board at all. But no matter how you look at it to say the industry has opted in is a bit of a stretch.

And unless Intel or Nvidia get on board then adaptive sync is never going to be industry standard because all it means is that monitor manufacturers will only be able to sell to AMD owners.

The scalers include freeSync. Over the coming months/year it will be hard to buy any non FreeSync monitor. What GPU powers the monitor is irrelevant.

melmac · 7 Jan 2015 at 17:46

Martini1991 said:
Only AMD are supporting active sync currently , but it's an optional standard of the VESA spec for 1.3 DP and 1.2a, but AMD have little to do with it now from that point of view. But it's down to AMD for it being there.

Yeah, Maybe it will only ever be an optional spec, as it does add cost and if it was a requirement then this would push up the price of every monitor with a display port, even ones that wouldn't ever be used for gaming.

melmac · 7 Jan 2015 at 17:49

jigger said:
The scalers include freeSync. Over the coming months/year it will be hard to buy any non FreeSync monitor. What GPU powers the monitor is irrelevant.

What GPU is entirely relevant. How can it be said the industry opted in if only one GPU manufacturer supports it?

And why would you put the increased cost of a scaler compatible with adaptive sync in a non gaming monitor? Why increase the cost?

jigger · 7 Jan 2015 at 17:53

Thats the beauty of it, the cost looks to be almost negligible to a manufacturer.

melmac · 7 Jan 2015 at 18:06

andybird123 said:
blah blah

actually forget it. It's a stupid argument.

You say they are features of the gsync module.

I say they are features of the monitor and will never be known or listed as features of the module.

We will never agree.

And I am really done this time.

melmac · 7 Jan 2015 at 18:10

jigger said:
Thats the beauty of it, the cost looks to be almost negligible to a manufacturer.

Sorry, please respond to the question. You said the industry had opted in and then that the GPU was irrelevant.

If only one GPU maker supports it, how is that proof of the industry adopting it?

There is a £10-£20 cost to install a compatible scaler. That doesn't make much difference in a £300 monitor, but, for budget monitors it makes a huge difference. So you still say we will see adaptive sync in ever monitor in a few months?

Martini1991 · 7 Jan 2015 at 18:10

jigger said:
The scalers include freeSync. Over the coming months/year it will be hard to buy any non FreeSync monitor. What GPU powers the monitor is irrelevant.

You have no idea what you're talking about. This is completely wrong.

I don't know where to start. How have you managed to get to this conclusion given everything that has been posted in this thread?

I'm at a loss.

jigger · 7 Jan 2015 at 18:15

Martini1991 said:
You have no idea what you're talking about. This is completely wrong.

I don't know where to start. How have you managed to get to this conclusion given everything that has been posted in this thread?

I'm at a loss.

Seriously go back and read the thread, all the details needed to understand the various topics are in the thread.

If CBA just watch this.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u8X76NRiQLQ

Martini1991 · 7 Jan 2015 at 18:17

jigger said:
Seriously go back and read the thread, all the details needed to understand the various topics are in the thread.

If CBA just watch this.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u8X76NRiQLQ

No, it's you with the lack of understanding.

Adaptive Sync is the standard (OPTIONAL STANDARD *NOTE OPTIONAL!!!!*), NOT freesync. Freesync is AMD's propriety implementation to use adaptive sync.

And the adaptive sync implementation has a BOM, a BOM which rules out putting it in the budget monitors that people buy. Hence why all the announcements of Freesync compatible monitors are all in the higher tier. Because that's who it's targeting. Although, it's very possible to end up with 150 pound 1080p IPS Adaptive Sync monitors, the BOM isn't that much.

Or you bury your head in the sand and buy a random monitor in 5 months and let me know how you get on.

jigger · 7 Jan 2015 at 18:28

The video was 4:33 seconds long. Apart from getting out some hand puppets and taking you through this with the aid of vibrant imagery I'm not sure what you want me to do.

Martini1991 · 7 Jan 2015 at 18:30

But you're the one who's wrong :confused:

So very very wrong.

Your head's so stuck in the sand it's unreal.

Sin_Chase · 7 Jan 2015 at 18:32

jigger said:
Seriously go back and read the thread, all the details needed to understand the various topics are in the thread.

If CBA just watch this.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u8X76NRiQLQ

Yeah. You are on the wrong side of the fence here on planet no-idea. I suggest you go inform yourself, apologise and ask for a 1-way ticket to planet-sensible.

Adaptive-Sync - A rebaked implementation of an already used Variable Blank feature that was, primarily, used by laptop and mobile devices for power savings. This rebaked version has been discussed by VESA and, at this time, accepted as an optional feature of the Displayport 1.2a and 1.3 specification.

FreeSync - AMDs propitiatory technology that exists in software and hardware of their drivers and GPUs (Currently a select few 2xx series cards) FreeSync utilises the optional Adaptive-Sync feature of Displayport 1.2a and 1.3. FreeSync is entirely an AMD product that, allegedly, mimics/does the same job as G-SYNC.

Monitor Makers - Conform to VESA standards in order to both use DisplayPort hardware and be able to label themselves as compliant. There is a cost associated with such a relationship but this is somewhat out of scope of this conversation. The vendor can choose to include Adaptive-Sync as part of their monitor hardware and, as a result, claim support for Adaptive-Sync. With discussion with AMD (I presume) they can ALSO claim support for FreeSync. Remember - FreeSync is an AMD technology, nobody else's.

Monitor makers can also release DP1.2a and 1.3 monitors WITHOUT the Adaptive-Sync feature. They are STILL VESA complaint and can be labelled and sold as such. They cannot advertise FreeSync support because they lack the hardware/firmware support to do so.

Intel (For example) - Decide that this whole Variable Refresh Rate thing is a pretty good call. They decide that their new iGPU will support it. Intel code new drivers and ensure their hardware can output to the VESA 1.2a or 1.3 Display Port spec. They finish and polish a product and sell it as DynamicSync. DynamicSync is a purely Intel product that works on-top of the VESA Adaptive-Sync optional feature.

Monitor Makers can now also claim DynamicSync support AND FreeSync support, assuming both companies are happy with such branding on the box (Seems unlikely).

Monitor Makers (Part 2) - Can implement the optional Adaptive-Sync feature in their DisplayPort 1.2a and 1.3 complaint monitors. They do not market them as such, they do not approach AMD for licensing/permission to advertise FreeSync. It should also still work with FreeSync BECAUSE it is DP 1.2a/1.3 complaint and has the optional Adaptive-Sync feature set.

The only way the latter is not true is if Monitor makers have to implement hardware in their scaler to support AMDs FreeSync technology. That or, at the very least, software/firmware based support.

The actual scaler implementation seems relatively unknown. Although from the limited support currently and AMD's "claim" that hardware will cost less to implement it seems to suggest that scaler hardware has to be built around FreeSync or certainly with it in mind. Which would be an awful shame.

In an ideal world any VESA DP complaint monitor with the Adaptive-Sync feature should support FreeSync out of the box. The cynic in me thinks - No chance. AMD don't want people buying monitors that support Adaptive-Sync and, by extension, FreeSync and not having thier branding plastered over the box. How they control this will be interesting. Whether it is a SupportFreeSync=1 flag in firmware or a physical hardware gate keeper.

melmac · 7 Jan 2015 at 18:35

jigger said:
The video was 4:33 seconds long. Apart from getting out some hand puppets and taking you through this with the aid of vibrant imagery I'm not sure what you want me to do.

Well I wasn't sure before, but I am 100% sure now that you are just trolling.

But, for the hell of it, you ignored my reply to your last post. Here it is again.

melmac said:
Sorry, please respond to the question. You said the industry had opted in and then that the GPU was irrelevant.

If only one GPU maker supports it, how is that proof of the industry adopting it?

There is a £10-£20 cost to install a compatible scaler. That doesn't make much difference in a £300 monitor, but, for budget monitors it makes a huge difference. So you still say we will see adaptive sync in ever monitor in a few months?

Please answer the two questions.

jigger · 7 Jan 2015 at 18:47

You don't seem to grasp how this is been implemented and are getting stuck on the word optional. The industry has opted in and pledge support. Scaler manufactures have been producing chips for months and we have monitors that are able to support FreeSync that have been available for years and will probably get retro active firmware.

This means not only will new scalers support the feature but so will some older ones. You probably can't draw the correlation between this and your cost argument while you're angry.

Martini1991 · 7 Jan 2015 at 18:54

Nobody is getting hung up on the word optional.
We just understand what the actual situation is.

Which you evidentially don't by saying that it doesn't matter what GPU you use, you just use the monitor. Which is hilarious, because on the AMD support page for GPU's on Freesync, it shows that you're wrong with the limited support in GPU's for AMD (And obviously, no Nvidia GPU supports or will ever support Freesync)

You just seem absolutely clueless about the whole situation.

And monitor firmware upgrades aren't going to happen for monitors that are years old, hell, we'd be extremely lucky if even 3 SKU's sold in the last month will work get a firmware update.