Windows 10? Why?

Nemesis379 said:
Hello everyone,

I recently built my new PC installed Windows 10 Pro can someone tell me what the attraction is (besides it including DX12 & a few other tweaks).

I think it's the most un-intuitive software designed by Windows ever, it's like they couldn't decide whether they were designing for a tablet or PC.

What's your opinion?

Thanks!
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I would hazard a guess, that most home users that are using it, are doing so, as they got it for 'free' during the launch period - that's where I sit. Other's may be using it because that is what came on their pre-built machine, so have no alternative (assuming they're your average PC World customer here), then there will be others who may want/need the DX12 you mention (not PC gamed since the Xbox 360 came out!). Finally, there will be others (again I sit here) that are running it to get acquainted with it, for their job.

Personally, having used it since general release, I consider it an unfinished mess. I say that, as it seems that they are halfway between the transition from an old-style Control Panel (*.cpl) interface, and the newer 'Settings' style - you often find that you can do certain things in both interfaces, and sometimes you'll be working in the Settings screens; and a menu click in there, will then open an older style screen. It just feels unfinished in this respect - would that bother an average user though? Probably not.

It also seems to be jam-packed with irrelevant nonsense, from all the pre-loaded **** (Candy Crush, Facebook, whatever), through to all of the 'phone home' type things - which sends Asim (I think that's the member - apologies if not!) into a tin foil hat spin! I guess the latter is just moving with the times though, as the O/S is designed for mobile devices out and about on LTE, and these features may be of use to some people.

The O/S itself though, is just as intuitive as Windows 7 (imo of course) - I have yet to reach a point where I have struggled to find or do anything, I have done in all previous windows versions. I will concede a little though, as [via my profession] I often use plenty of shortcuts and 'Run' commands to navigate Windows. One of the best features Windows 10 offers, is the powerful (ableit, often fallible) search within the Start menu - hit the Windows key and type away; most of the time, it will find what you need.
 
My only issue with 10 is control panel vs settings, there should only be one place to go to manage this stuff.
 
silvagti said:
.. And now from the company that brought you multiple broken Windows 10 updates..... they wanted to make sure Windows 7 users didn't feel left out...

https://www.zdnet.com/article/micro...eaks-networking-bricks-legit-not-genuine-pcs/


Seriously, do Microsoft actually f*@#ing test updates before they roll them out to the public?
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This is what I've been arguing about for years now - it isn't so much Windows 10 but the updates standard just isn't high enough for the kind of mechanisms they are employing not to mention the realworld reality for many people when it comes to internet connectivity.
 
You're not wrong. People and business depend on systems running their software and can't afford the risk of bodged updates.

The headache is that Windows seems to be the only platform plagued by these issues to this level. Have Apple ever released an update that's broken your iPad or iPhone outright to the point where it wouldn't work. Has your Android phone ever died as a result of an Google patch or update. Your Xbox or Playstation?

People expect updates to be tested and work flawlessly. They have no tolerance of bodged updates these days and nor should they in 2019!
 
It’s been what, three and a half years since Windows 10 launch and i’ve managed to come up with two ways it is a better OS than Windows 7.

1. DirectX 12
2. It’s newer

That’s it. In every other way it either matches or is worse than the OS it “succeeds”.

I sometimes wonder if you took away those who were tricked into installing it how much share it would have. Windows versions like 2000, XP and 7 managed to grow by virtue of being an overall better package than anything that had come before. Not so with 10.
 
I actually like in concept the new start menu - in practise the implementation leaves a lot to be desired and renders it less useful than it could be that and the new file copy stuff (which was also in 8 to some extent) are the only things I really think are better.

I'm running 7 and 10 side by side and 9 times out of 10 prefer working in 7 or at the very least it is no worse than 10 and 10 has quite a few disadvantages some potentially showstopping depending on the task I'm doing.
 
Oooh okay, yes the new file copy dialog is good, that makes three. Forgot about that

The worst for me is just the bloat, and the fact that Windows 10 tries to reinstall said bloat with every major new build. How is this even defensible? I remember when laptop makers tried to pull this and it was met with derision but alas, Microsoft gets a free pass in this regard.

It's times like now I wish the EU/EC hadn't blown it's load with the browser debacle and saved it instead to start pulling Windows 10 apart and dishing out fines.
 
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I've always built my own PC's, always picked up mid tier well known hardware for minimal headache. I'd only adopt the new Windows after one / two years of release and literally every version of Windows ended up becoming buggy, I'd experience slow downs to the point of requiring a full reinstall. To the extent that I got into the habit of imaging my OS drive and restoring the image anytime something goofed.

I've genuinely never had to do that with Windows 10. Ever. I couldn't be happier and to answer OP, it sounds like Microsoft won't be releasing a new OS every few years and instead continue to update Window 10. So may as well hop on board because it's here to stay.
 
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I'm not sure how it's bloated. Yes it installs apps unless your turn it off but that's the way the world is going and what is providing the 'free' versions. I could go in to the farce that is the EU with the entire anti-trust sage but we all know it was a cash cow. At the end of the day you need a browser and you can install what ever browser you like from there on in. Hell Apple products force you to use Safari so how they get away with it amazes me.

Anyway things I currently love about Windows 10:

Boot / Shutdown times - far faster than Windows 7
Stability - I can't remember the last time it crashed - it's very, very stable
Compatibility - always amazes me how much backward compatibility there is
Direct X 12 - latest cards are DX12 compatible so it would be daft to have a DX12 card but not able to use it to it's full potential because I'm on an OS that doesn't have it
Task Manager- gets better and better at giving you information
Multiscreen / Icons - having virtual monitors is good but when you have several screens the ability to just have the icon showing on the window it's on is brilliant
 
m4cc45 said:
Boot / Shutdown times - far faster than Windows 7
Stability - I can't remember the last time it crashed - it's very, very stable
Compatibility - always amazes me how much backward compatibility there is
Direct X 12 - latest cards are DX12 compatible so it would be daft to have a DX12 card but not able to use it to it's full potential because I'm on an OS that doesn't have it
Task Manager- gets better and better at giving you information
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While it is capable of very fast start/shutdown on balance I find it slower than my optimised 7 setups while the most consistent fast boot/shutdown for me is 8 which in most cases walks all over 10 with a lot slower hardware easily beating higher performance hardware on 10.

Stability I've mixed feelings about - I've not had much in the way of crashes or BSODs, etc. but on the other hand I've had a good number of issues with the OS intermittently deciding to become busy or slow in responding, i.e. sometimes the OS ends up in a state where the start menu and/or file explorer take around 2 minutes to actually update in response to an action and especially things like the anti-malware service quite frequently seems to get its knickers in a twist and sit there using a lot of CPU until you manually intervene and there are a few other background services that can become unstable while it doesn't happen to everyone it isn't unusual for it to happen either.

DX12 I'm yet to see anything really use in a useful way - most games with a DX12 renderer don't appear to use it to enhance things visually in any significant way while the DX12 renderer is often slower and more stuttery than the DX11 implementation in the same game.

Some of the stuff in the new task manager is nice to have.
 
You'd have to do some searching but DX12 does make a difference when it's implemented correctly but, like anything relatively new, it takes ages for it to make it in the game properly.

Battlefield 5 seems to be going in the right direction as the extra details and extra FPS seem to be coming through:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gUVItGDbygM

I'm not sure what's causing your delays. I don't suffer with them. I'm on build 1809 if that helps. I use Windows 10 around 12 hours a day with work and home and have never hit that issue so it's an odd one.



M.
 
m4cc45 said:
I'm not sure how it's bloated. Yes it installs apps unless your turn it off but that's the way the world is going and what is providing the 'free' versions. I could go in to the farce that is the EU with the entire anti-trust sage but we all know it was a cash cow. At the end of the day you need a browser and you can install what ever browser you like from there on in. Hell Apple products force you to use Safari so how they get away with it amazes me.

Anyway things I currently love about Windows 10:

Boot / Shutdown times - far faster than Windows 7
Stability - I can't remember the last time it crashed - it's very, very stable
Compatibility - always amazes me how much backward compatibility there is
Direct X 12 - latest cards are DX12 compatible so it would be daft to have a DX12 card but not able to use it to it's full potential because I'm on an OS that doesn't have it
Task Manager- gets better and better at giving you information
Multiscreen / Icons - having virtual monitors is good but when you have several screens the ability to just have the icon showing on the window it's on is brilliant
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None of those are true apart from the DirectX 12 one sadly.
 
None?

I think you must be using a different OS.

You don't find it stable (in which case I'd check your hardware), you don't find it compatible? (how? I can play old games and run old apps, of course this is not all but it's still a very backward compatible OS), it doesn't have a better task manager? It doesn't have multi-screen?

They're really obvious features synonymous with nigh on every Windows release. Every release tries to make everything that little bit more smoother.

By the way I'm not saying it's a perfect OS. There are some features, especially the suggestions, that shouldn't have made it but then i understand the commercials in the background



M.
 
Tute said:
None of those are true apart from the DirectX 12 one sadly.
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My two Win10 PCs, both very stable, one has overclocked CPU and video card, all my games run fine, I don't look for much in an OS but two things I need are stability and running games fine. No OS is perfect and I can understand layout hates, bloatware etc.

The only issue I have with Microsoft is they should test their Windows updates more before releasing them to the public (I had the WU activation issue with 10 which was fixed but should not have happened, lucky it did not effect stability), which to be fair is not Win10 fault but those Microsoft programmers etc..
 
m4cc45 said:
None?

I think you must be using a different OS.

You don't find it stable (in which case I'd check your hardware), you don't find it compatible? (how? I can play old games and run old apps, of course this is not all but it's still a very backward compatible OS), it doesn't have a better task manager? It doesn't have multi-screen?

They're really obvious features synonymous with nigh on every Windows release. Every release tries to make everything that little bit more smoother.

By the way I'm not saying it's a perfect OS. There are some features, especially the suggestions, that shouldn't have made it but then i understand the commercials in the background



M.
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Problem is stability wise you get very different opinions from different people - my dad's laptop for instance never really has any problems, never taken more than an hour to do even the big feature updates and usually like 10 minute job - he has had it start doing updates at bad moments* though which has had him almost put it back to Windows 7/8 but he actually likes 10 for the most part aside from that.

I find game compatibility not great personally - lot of games that are kind of in the middle ground not really old stuff but not new that are based around earlier DX9 implementations or late DX7/8 generation I find either don't work on 10 or get strange rendering issues like half the screen missing or limited to 15 or 30 FPS all of which work perfectly fine on 7 and even 8.

* I can't remember what the second incident he had with updates was but the first time it automatically rebooted on him and started doing a feature update when he took a short break while in the middle of working on documents for an event the next day that he was off early for resulting in him having to get up an hour earlier than an already early start to be able to do it then more recently he was on holiday in a place with very limited internet connectivity and strict bandwidth limits that were shared with all guests and he was differing and differing updates on his laptop but eventually couldn't put them off any longer which didn't go down well - completely unacceptable behaviour for an OS.
 
With Windows 10 you really have to set Active Hours and such like up. I'm not happy having little control over it but you can disable the service if you're having issues. I get them trying to make it more secure but it's not as flexible as I would like.

Have you tried installing the DX9 web installer?
https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/download/details.aspx?displaylang=en&id=35

That made things a lot better for compatibility. Do you have any game examples? I play a lot of games based on DX9 (and emulators, I'm much more into the retro side of gaming) and haven't hit one yet - though probably just being lucky.



M.
 
Sigh.

I said better than Windows 7. I can’t remeber the last time my Windows 7 install crashed ergo Windows 10 isn’t better in this regard.

[Edit] Just read that back, sorry for being so blunt. Not in a good mood today sadly.

[Edit2] Feeling better now. As said, I never claimed Windows 10 was unstable, just that it offered nothing over Windows 7 in terms of stability. I mean let's face it, W7 is very polished in that regard at this point. Same with regards to compatibility, speed, and multiscreen too (in fact both nVidia and AMD nailed multiscreen through drivers years ago).

Overall, given the regression in areas such as user control, bloatware and UI (W10 is kind of a franken-os in this regard, bits of touchscreen stitched together haphazardly with the old UI in no coherent fashion), I consider it to be a worse OS.
 
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