Windows 7

Mattus said:
Not really... just don't install those apps to Program Files and you'll be fine.

MS's guidelines are that apps should write data to the user folders rather than to Program Files. It's been like that for ages, so the only apps which will give you problems are those that are either really old or just badly designed.
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Yes, and while that guideline is perfect for multi-user systems, it falls flat on it's face for apps that are single user, or are portable apps ... as these always write to the program directory.
 
a) Why not just install your portable apps outside of Program Files? Problem solved.

b) Why do you need to install portable apps to your system drive anyway? Doesn't that defeat the point of portable apps?
 
Mattus said:
That's interesting. The point of the Vista UAC prompts taking over the desktop was that no rogue applications could imitate them. Wonder how MS have found a way round that?
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There is a Security Policy setting on Vista to enable that behaviour.

I have enabled it on my PC. Makes it a bit easier.
 
Mattus said:
a) Why not just install your portable apps outside of Program Files? Problem solved.

b) Why do you need to install portable apps to your system drive anyway? Doesn't that defeat the point of portable apps?
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What if an app is only offered in a portable manner? I can think of a few that I use for my Uni work that are like that ... and I find it annoying to have to NOT install them to "Program Files" dir, simply because they are programs end of the day.

Program Files directory is not really ment to be a "protected" directory, it does not contain any Windows critical files. Equally, the whole UAC issue could have been avoided by developing the system in a different way ... give each program it's own "user" and have the program dir be writeable by that "user", problem solved.
 
Any way to disable driver signing? I have got speedfan to load up using Vista RTM compatibility but it wont see any fans and apparently this is due to Windows 7's driver signing so If possible I need to disable it I think?

Thanks
Will.
 
rypt said:
Why is it that linux has no problem allowing a program to write to its own dir, provided it has the correct permissions to do it?
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Because if you're using the permissions system properly, no day to day user account should have access to write to the program's directory...

UAC enforces correct policy management rather than relying on the user to set it up correctly, after XP proved that most home (and many business and so called power users) didn't know how to set up a system securely.

No day to day user account, on windows, linux or unix, should have need to write to program directories in normal use.
 
meghatronic said:
Now it electrocutes you.
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I'm now almost crying.:o:D:D

One word can describe how much better Vista is than XP...

"Search"

That has been a revelation, whether the search bar in the start menu or the search bar in all windows. Starting programs is so much easier and searching for files sooooooooo much faster (XP's search is some kind of torture, to the point there are times it can't even find files after searching for 5 minutes, ones you can actually see in the folder).

Anyway on to Windows 7, it looks like quite a good update. The desktop slideshow looks good, why haven't they put that in earlier, it's not particularly difficult to do in either XP or Vista, codec support from the box is another positive and some of the other mentioned bits sound good too. I'm definately going to have a look at it when it comes out in Beta.

Edit: Also, anyone know if they have integrated livemesh better than in vista?
 
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rypt said:
Why is it that linux has no problem allowing a program to write to its own dir, provided it has the correct permissions to do it?
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I suspect it doesn't. Otherwise it would be insecure.

Writing to \Program Files needs administrator rights.

Writing to \Users\<user name>\AppData\LocalLow\<company name>\<product name> does not.

I probably should point out that the latter folder (the AppData one) is the recommended location by Microsoft for all Vista applications to install to. Those that still default to installing to Program Files are doing so because they are either a system-wide piece of software or because the user ticked the "Make this program available to all users" tick box on the installer.
 
rypt said:
Equally, the whole UAC issue could have been avoided by developing the system in a different way ... give each program it's own "user" and have the program dir be writeable by that "user", problem solved.
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That wouldn't work nor is it needed. What happens when that application goes to do something that only the logged on user has access to do? I.e. access some resources on the Active Directory.

The current design that makes a split between Program Files and AppData is the best design. It's the only logical one. I suspect Linux has something similar.
 
Dolph said:
Because if you're using the permissions system properly, no day to day user account should have access to write to the program's directory...

UAC enforces correct policy management rather than relying on the user to set it up correctly, after XP proved that most home (and many business and so called power users) didn't know how to set up a system securely.

No day to day user account, on windows, linux or unix, should have need to write to program directories in normal use.
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No one said a normal user account can write to that directory, what I said is that a PROGRAM can write to IT'S OWN directory.
 
rypt said:
No one said a normal user account can write to that directory, what I said is that a PROGRAM can write to IT'S OWN directory.
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Why would a program need to write anything to its own directory? The program files are in there, and that's what the program runs on. The only time they should need to be changed are when it's upgraded.

Any settings are stored either in the registry, or the AppData folder.
 
rypt said:
No one said a normal user account can write to that directory, what I said is that a PROGRAM can write to IT'S OWN directory.
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But a program shouldn't need to write to its own directory! That's why the folder's called Program Files - it's for executable files, not data.
 
Mattus said:
But a program shouldn't need to write to its own directory! That's why the folder's called Program Files - it's for executable files, not data.
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A program that is designed as a portable app can still be used as a normal program, while a better design would be to have the portable / normal behaviour be changeable via some sort of setting, it is not always the case. As I said, I have a number of programs that are only ever offered in portable form, and I LIKE to have all my stuff installed to "Program Files".

What Microsoft "thinks" and "wants" is not always the reality, or the best way.
 
rypt said:
What Microsoft "thinks" and "wants" is not always the reality, or the best way.
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To be fair, they can't really win! People criticised Microsoft for the weak security of their operating systems. So they responded by beefing up the security in Vista - part of which was giving program files some degree of protection. But now there're people like yourself complaining that they prefer the insecure way. What do you suggest they do? If you don't want the security features, turn them off. Nobody's forcing you to use UAC.
 
rypt said:
No one said a normal user account can write to that directory, what I said is that a PROGRAM can write to IT'S OWN directory.
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But that would allow one rogue user to muck up the entire program for all the other users of that PC. By like going into the advanced settings screen of the program and setting them to broken values or something...

You're not thinking of the bigger picture.
 
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