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Windows Store Games won't have VSync, SLI/CrossFire, Fullscreen or Modding

Rroff said:
Though it was something AMD was working on last time I checked FreeSync doesn't support non-exclusive fullscreen modes and G-SYNC's implementation isn't entirely trouble free thought it does mostly work (it can still sometimes get a bit confused if you have several applications running that make use of GPU acceleration/compositing features).
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Just an observation, why else would the game have an option for freesync unless it was needed to be activated within the game in the case of low abstraction api's?

would need someone to test it though. But i believe with DX11 games it currently needs exclusive full screen to run as it has to detect the game to sync it. but if the game engine itself is directly activating freesync then i guess it would be different. same as with mGPU working in window mode when using low abstraction API's since the game engine directly controls it.
 
FoxEye said:
Which I'm sure will go down as one of the most unnecessarily decisions in history :p They have enough people to make a desktop OS for desktop, and a phone OS for phone, without having to shoehorn one into the other.
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Further to my earlier comment - I don't think trying to have one OS for all those platforms is a problem - the problem is they lack the vision to produce an implementation that can dynamically scale between all the platforms and instead cutting features and functionality to work with the lowest common denominator i.e. the start menu/system could easily be made to scale from anything from a traditional start menu to a fullscreen system, from 1280x800 on a 4" device to multi-display UHD or higher with proper group management and theme customisation but they seem to lack the vision and ingenuity to make it happen.

Mauller said:
Just an observation, why else would the game have an option for freesync unless it was needed to be activated within the game in the case of low abstraction api's?

would need someone to test it though. But i believe with DX11 games it currently needs exclusive full screen to run as it has to detect the game to sync it. but if the game engine itself is directly activating freesync then i guess it would be different. same as with mGPU working in window mode when using low abstraction API's since the game engine directly controls it.
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I'm not really sure what the state of it is with Windows 10 (and the changes to compositing) and DX12 - I know on DX11 and older on OSes older than 10 that don't have support for it in their WDDM version the only real option to make it work is via additional hardware - which is why nVidia has been able to make it work with their FPGA.
 
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Rroff said:
Further to my earlier comment - I don't think trying to have one OS for all those platforms is a problem - the problem is they lack the vision to produce an implementation that can dynamically scale between all the platforms and instead cutting features and functionality to work with the lowest common denominator i.e. the start menu/system could easily be made to scale from anything from a traditional start menu to a fullscreen system, from 1280x800 on a 4" device to multi-display UHD or higher with proper group management and theme customisation but they seem to lack the vision and ingenuity to make it happen.
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this was one thing that i always thought about. HAving a full screen start menu is not that big of an issue. it is why i liked the cascaded start menu of yonder year. No idea why they compacted it down, it was far faster to work your way through cascaded menus, all they needed to do was make each level of the menu scrollable.

Windows 8 would have been fine if it had the full screen start menu that windows 10 has. HAving apps one side and scrollable menu on the other.

Rroff said:
I'm not really sure what the state of it is with Windows 10 (and the changes to compositing) and DX12 - I know on DX11 and older on OSes older than 10 that don't have support for it in their WDDM version the only real option to make it work is via additional hardware - which is why nVidia has been able to make it work with their FPGA.
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The additional hardware was more to do with their scaler not supporting adaptive sync. So the additional hardware with a few extra commands from the standard display stream acts as the syncing unit. instead of the scaler itself in the gpu acting as the syncing unit. It is why even older cards can support it as long as they have a display port, since they just send the extra syncing commands along with the standard display stream down the aux channel in the DP cable.
 
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^^ Not saying the additional hardware was there specifically to make Window mode G-SYNC work but its because it is there and programmable that they were able to get Windowed mode working relatively quickly and easily with older OSes/APIs compared to what AMD are dealing with.
 
^^ ah i get what you are saying now. Will jsut have to wait and see, would be nice if someone could test ashes A-sync feature. The game only runs in borderless window for AMD anyway since they don't yet support DirectFlip in DX12. Not that they didnt mean to but they were following the DX12 preferred method guide which asks them to composite using DWM. I guess it must help with memory allocation issues etc.
 
FoxEye said:
Well the one thing I'd always say in MS defense - prior to Win 10 - was that their OS were largely hassle free, and worked well out of the box for non-technical users.

With Win 10, the amount of problems/ bugs/ annoyances is mounting up. Usability is down, frustration is up. Crazy design decisions are the order of the day.
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Win 10 has been hassle free for me. I didn't like 8.1 but 10's great. Certainly no worse than 7 which was better than Vista and so on.
 
Rroff said:
^^ Not saying the additional hardware was there specifically to make Window mode G-SYNC work but its because it is there and programmable that they were able to get Windowed mode working relatively quickly and easily with older OSes/APIs compared to what AMD are dealing with.
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I was under the impression that g-sync doesn't always work in windowed mode, but more to the point if Windows enforces a v-sync lock then won't g-sync be disabled anyway?
 
DX12 FS (at a guess)might be run windowed the same as mgpu can, (could be wrong here)but I believe in DX11, AMD implement FS across the board and not on a game per game basis(which Nv do), ROTTR IS DX11 though, will AMD be left with the choice of informing FS customers not to purchase via W10 store?:eek:

Is the FS DX12 implementation the same or does FS support need to be included by the vendor or on the driver side?

Something for AMD to explain, maybe Nv too if they are affected or not.

Can't say Iv'e had any gripes with 7/8.1 or 10, didn't like the tiles on 8 though and kept using Start8 until W10.
 
only microsoft studio make windows store exclusive games, thank god
i am honestly happy that xbone is failling, because if it didnt and games sold well on xbone, they would have forced more studios to make it windows store exclusive.
rise of the tomb raider sold 3 times more on pc during a month than the xbone sales since november
Superdata
 
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AlamoX said:
only microsoft studio make windows store exclusive games, thank god
i am honestly happy that xbone is failling, because if it didnt and games sold well on xbone, they would have forced more studios to make it windows store exclusive.
rise of the tomb raider sold 3 times more on pc during a month than the xbone sales since november
Superdata
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XB1 is "failing"? It has sold fewer units than PS4 but last I heard it was making a tidy profit for MS.
 
drunkenmaster said:
I was under the impression that g-sync doesn't always work in windowed mode, but more to the point if Windows enforces a v-sync lock then won't g-sync be disabled anyway?
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They have it mostly working now - IIRC in Windows 10 its fairly robust but older OSes Window mode G-SYNC can still be a little flakey.

Not sure on the 2nd one - usually nVidia's drivers over-ride any V-SYNC but not sure with Windows 10 store apps.
 
Rroff said:
Funny thing is using a Windows 10 phone (my mum recently got one) I can now understand the design direction for certain aspects... that doesn't change that they make absolutely no sense on desktop - but they are trying to force a one model for the OS.

If you are on a tablet but don't use tablet mode (and in some cases even with) Windows 10 is pretty bad on a tablet though - how badly desktop Windows Update works with a mobile (tablet/laptop) environment and the horrid work arounds (i.e. the appearance of an "Update and shut down" option now if an update is pending rather than force it on shutdown) they've put in place rather than admit they are wrong and change the underlying direction is hilarious.
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Not tried Windows 10 on my phone yet as its still on Windows Mobile 8.1 but first thing I do when using Windows 10 on a tablet is turn off tablet mode as its horrible. I then get a proper Windows 10 desktop experience.

Anyway MS are probably too busy at the moment with the massive Surface recall as there leads are catching fire.
 
I don't use tablet mode on 10 as I'd go for an Android tablet for that kind of functionality - but I don't find the tablet experience on 10 that great - more often than not I end up picking up my older Windows 8 tablet to actually do stuff as some of the design approaches with 10 are actually more clunky and I seem to bump heads with Windows Update more often than not - its kind of lol worthy as part of having a device like that is because you can just pick it up and go but quite often I find I'm looking at one of the Windows Update screens instead. They really need to get over the whole forced updates thing and put proper control back into the hands of users.

EDIT: And my main Windows 10 tablet isn't even on an insider/fast ring unlike some of my other devices.

(I never thought I'd see the day where I considered Windows 8 a superior experience to anything).
 
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Could it be considered a good move for certain games namely those with cheating in mp like cod or bf etc? With the limits it sets would it make hacking to cheat harder or not? Genuine question. For all other games I'd stick to steam etc. But for mp based games if it helps prevent cheating and hacking then maybe and that's a big maybe, it could be kinda a good thing?
 
I can't see it having much impact on cheating - the cheat developers always seem to be 1 step ahead of the game when it comes to preventing them :(
 
Don't understand how Microsoft expect the PC gaming community to not completely abandon the Windows Store with limitations like that. I wonder how any group of MS employees could have emerged from a meeting having decided on those policies and not known they were shooting themselves in the foot.
 
Windows Store seems to be crippled as far as selling PC games goes. A shame, since Steam could really use the competition. I guess GOG is the only real Steam alternative for now. As if MS didn't make their dislike for PC gaming obvious enough...
 
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