I don't buy into the theory that they had to make it this way for the masses either, whether it had deep storytelling or not wasn't going to have an effect on the viewership. People who watch it mindlessly would still have done so.
Poll: Winter Is Coming - HBO's A Game of Thrones [READ WARNING]
- Thread starter Hostile_18
- Start date
Man of Honour
- Joined
- 21 Nov 2004
- Posts
- 46,383
It was quite GoT I thought in the way that she died. At least we saw her fearful for a change.
I wonder what happened to Ellaria who Cersei imprisoned - I guess the building came down on her. That must have been mighty confusing out of context
(assuming she was even still alive?).My favorite post of the day - https://www.reddit.com/r/gameofthrones/comments/bot4fo/spoilers_jaime_totally_called_it/
Jamie was spot on. Not that Cersei could have played it any other way imo.
I was originally thrilled about this. Yup, was.
If season 8 had been written and recorded 5 years ago, with the exact same character conclusions and outcomes, I bet we'd all be praising it right now and calling it incredible... Because back then they would have padded it out and put a hell of a lot more time and effort into it. Despite ending the same, it would have been completely different.
I don't think people are really too annoyed at what is happening in the story, but rather how they got there in the first place. It's just so rushed and sloppy.
I don't think people are really too annoyed at what is happening in the story, but rather how they got there in the first place. It's just so rushed and sloppy.
well, to me I think it's either laziness or incompetence. a showrunner has huge responsibility, and for a show like GoT it must have multiple levels of that. if you're responsible for a massively popular, intricately plotted work, your show "bible" should be amazingly extensive and plots for the next season should be vetted against that, never mind your previous episodes, and of course the books and/or GRRM himself to keep as true to the spirit as possible.
when you write something then have an interview saying things like "dani kinda forgot about the fleet" or "euron wasn't paying attention"....i mean, really. there's a vid out there repeating that "forgot" line about 5 times then cutting to a part of an episode showing exactly how concerned the characters were about the fleet and the threat it could be, etc.
laziness or incompetence. or, I suppose, apathy or contempt for the fans.
I think there's a few factors to that. All the behind the scenes McGuffins aside they've set themselves 13 episodes for the last 2 series. No doubt they had it all storyboarded out. Dany threatening Varys about the next betrayal, burning the Tarly's etc - all meant to foreshadow her going loopy.
20 episodes may have seemed too much back then when plotting out what was left - all the multitude of plot points have now converged into a couple now all the major characters are in two locations. We can no longer pop over to Bravos to see what Arya is up to, Dany in Mereen, Bronn and Jaime in Dorne (now, that was ****) etc.
As a result we're just getting one major plot point one after another with little exposition.
The writing itself is fine.
Caporegime
- Joined
- 30 Jul 2013
- Posts
- 29,678
Slightly off topic but can anyone remember a fantasy/sci-fi series that had a genuinely satisfying final season and conclusion?
I was wracking my brain trying to think of one. Lots came to mind that went seriously awry such as:
X-Files
Battlestar: Galactica
Lost
Even if you think about movies, like The Matrix trilogy and Lord of the Rings - I doubt there's many people who prefer 'Return of the King' or 'Revolutions' over the original.
DS9 was decent all the way through, but it didn't get really great until Season 3.
I was wracking my brain trying to think of one. Lots came to mind that went seriously awry such as:
X-Files
Battlestar: Galactica
Lost
Even if you think about movies, like The Matrix trilogy and Lord of the Rings - I doubt there's many people who prefer 'Return of the King' or 'Revolutions' over the original.
DS9 was decent all the way through, but it didn't get really great until Season 3.
It really isn't.
It's forced, they leave foreshadowing all over the place and then just pick it back up to explain a plot away.
could have easily had Jon kill the NK as that was foreshadowed also, but the audience expect that so let's have Arya do it as we foreshadowed that also.
They leave crumbs all over the place, always have.
You can bang on all you want but everyone I've spoken to about it has come away disappointed and feeling it's all rushed. These people aren't in deep debate like here, they just take it for what it is or "was".
I don't even think some get the deeper story arcs but they still feel something is off.
Simply because it is.
Man of Honour
- Joined
- 21 Nov 2004
- Posts
- 46,383
Voyager. Wait. Nope.
Next Generation. Uh, nope.
Stargate. Never really ended.
Always happens, even to the best of them.
Except that doesn't foreshadow anything. Varys tried to have her killed in Season 1 and the Tarly's were Oathbreakers, no different than Jon killing Janos Slynt or Ned killing the Night's watchman in the first episode, and she even gave them a choice. Giving people a reasonable choice is anything but madness. Mad Dany could have worked, and it probably will happen in the books, but it needed another 2-3 seasons to show her decent.
Man of Honour
- Joined
- 21 Nov 2004
- Posts
- 46,383
True, it is a bit of a leap to then kill every single unarmed soul in KL for someone who came to liberate the people and break their chains. Even worse, the tipping point was her not getting laid.
It is on the same level as Anakin Skywalker suddenly deciding that he wants to turn to the dark side and then kills a load of kids. Because. Dark side. 2 minutes earlier.
It is a stretch.
Soldato
- Joined
- 3 Oct 2009
- Posts
- 19,893
- Location
- Wales
That's a pretty direct contradiction.
Breaking Bad is pretty solid (not fantasy / sci-fi, but a long running high end TV show).
Sorry, meant in terms of dialogue.
edit:
Just to point out, I'd love it if it was stretched out longer. Really would. Just playing devils advocate. Or pointing out when the criticism is going a bit ott or just plain wrong.
Caporegime
- Joined
- 30 Jul 2013
- Posts
- 29,678
I liked the ending of BSG.
I'd disagree there too. There's a complete lack of dialogue between characters this season and what is there is too much tell not show. Varys in particular is too on the nose for my liking. Not to mention Jon has had nothing but "You're my queen" or "I don't want it" all season. Don't get me wrong there are some gems, like Tyrion talking to Jaime before he frees him or The Hound and Arya in the Red Keep, but it's outweighed by crap dialogue or no dialogue at all.
I'd say fantasy is the hardest genre to write satisfying conclusions for. The big evil is often built up to be insurmountable so it's almost impossible to come up with ways for the protagonists to beat them without it feeling either too contrived or something that's been done hundreds of times before (We have to shoot the dragon in it's one weak spot with this massive arrow!). The problem with GoT is D&D were offered both the time and the budget to come up with something satisfying but just couldn't be arsed anymore. They even had the bullet points from GRRM summerising the ending so they didn't even have to worry about that.
Caporegime
- Joined
- 30 Jul 2013
- Posts
- 29,678
Agreed.
There's no guarantee the final books will be good either though.