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Poll: Winter Is Coming - HBO's A Game of Thrones [READ WARNING]

Discussion in 'Music, Box Office, TV & Books' started by Hostile_18, Aug 3, 2009.

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Who will rule Westeros?

Poll closed May 18, 2019.
  1. Daenerys Targaryen

    6.8%
  2. Jon Snow / Aegon Targaryen

    30.8%
  3. Sansa Stark

    13.8%
  4. Arya Stark

    8.1%
  5. Bran Stark

    2.1%
  6. Sam Tarley

    3.0%
  7. Tyrion Lannister

    9.8%
  8. Jamie Lannister

    0.8%
  9. Cersei Lannister

    2.1%
  10. Gendry

    10.8%
  11. Brienne of Tarth

    1.3%
  12. The Night King

    4.9%
  13. Other (please specify)

    5.7%
  1. Washout

    Wise Guy

    Joined: Jul 2, 2003

    Posts: 1,597

    I think there's a few factors to that. All the behind the scenes McGuffins aside they've set themselves 13 episodes for the last 2 series. No doubt they had it all storyboarded out. Dany threatening Varys about the next betrayal, burning the Tarly's etc - all meant to foreshadow her going loopy.
    20 episodes may have seemed too much back then when plotting out what was left - all the multitude of plot points have now converged into a couple now all the major characters are in two locations. We can no longer pop over to Bravos to see what Arya is up to, Dany in Mereen, Bronn and Jaime in Dorne (now, that was ****) etc.

    As a result we're just getting one major plot point one after another with little exposition.

    The writing itself is fine.
     
  2. VincentHanna

    Capodecina

    Joined: Jul 30, 2013

    Posts: 17,516

    Slightly off topic but can anyone remember a fantasy/sci-fi series that had a genuinely satisfying final season and conclusion?

    I was wracking my brain trying to think of one. Lots came to mind that went seriously awry such as:

    X-Files
    Battlestar: Galactica
    Lost

    Even if you think about movies, like The Matrix trilogy and Lord of the Rings - I doubt there's many people who prefer 'Return of the King' or 'Revolutions' over the original.

    DS9 was decent all the way through, but it didn't get really great until Season 3.
     
  3. ZG002

    Capodecina

    Joined: Jul 22, 2004

    Posts: 10,163

    Location: Up north in Sunderland

    It really isn't.

    It's forced, they leave foreshadowing all over the place and then just pick it back up to explain a plot away.

    Could of easily had Jon kill the NK as that was foreshadowed also, but the audience expect that so let's have Arya do it as we foreshadowed that also.

    They leave crumbs all over the place, always have.

    You can bang on all you want but everyone I've spoken to about it has come away disappointed and feeling it's all rushed. These people aren't in deep debate like here, they just take it for what it is or "was".

    I don't even think some get the deeper story arcs but they still feel something is off.

    Simply because it is.
     
  4. CaptainRAVE

    Man of Honour

    Joined: Nov 21, 2004

    Posts: 30,410

    Voyager. Wait. Nope.
    Next Generation. Uh, nope.
    Stargate. Never really ended.

    Always happens, even to the best of them.
     
  5. Moothead2

    Sgarrista

    Joined: May 23, 2011

    Posts: 9,312

    Except that doesn't foreshadow anything. Varys tried to have her killed in Season 1 and the Tarly's were Oathbreakers, no different than Jon killing Janos Slynt or Ned killing the Night's watchman in the first episode, and she even gave them a choice. Giving people a reasonable choice is anything but madness. Mad Dany could have worked, and it probably will happen in the books, but it needed another 2-3 seasons to show her decent.
     
  6. CaptainRAVE

    Man of Honour

    Joined: Nov 21, 2004

    Posts: 30,410

    True, it is a bit of a leap to then kill every single unarmed soul in KL for someone who came to liberate the people and break their chains. Even worse, the tipping point was her not getting laid.

    It is on the same level as Anakin Skywalker suddenly deciding that he wants to turn to the dark side and then kills a load of kids. Because. Dark side. 2 minutes earlier.

    It is a stretch.
     
  7. Skillmister

    Capodecina

    Joined: Oct 3, 2009

    Posts: 19,013

    Location: Wales

    That's a pretty direct contradiction.
     
  8. manic111

    Capodecina

    Joined: Jul 1, 2007

    Posts: 15,087

    Location: Various

    Breaking Bad is pretty solid (not fantasy / sci-fi, but a long running high end TV show).
     
  9. Washout

    Wise Guy

    Joined: Jul 2, 2003

    Posts: 1,597

    Sorry, meant in terms of dialogue.

    edit:

    Just to point out, I'd love it if it was stretched out longer. Really would. Just playing devils advocate. Or pointing out when the criticism is going a bit ott or just plain wrong.
     
  10. VincentHanna

    Capodecina

    Joined: Jul 30, 2013

    Posts: 17,516

    Exactly, it's not fantasy.

    More 'high-concept'
     
  11. No1newts

    Capodecina

    Joined: May 24, 2009

    Posts: 19,276

    Location: North East

    I liked the ending of BSG.
     
  12. Moothead2

    Sgarrista

    Joined: May 23, 2011

    Posts: 9,312

    I'd disagree there too. There's a complete lack of dialogue between characters this season and what is there is too much tell not show. Varys in particular is too on the nose for my liking. Not to mention Jon has had nothing but "You're my queen" or "I don't want it" all season. Don't get me wrong there are some gems, like Tyrion talking to Jaime before he frees him or The Hound and Arya in the Red Keep, but it's outweighed by crap dialogue or no dialogue at all.
     
  13. MookJong

    Soldato

    Joined: Mar 20, 2006

    Posts: 7,400

    I guess I must have not been a die-hard fan after all :(
     
  14. Moothead2

    Sgarrista

    Joined: May 23, 2011

    Posts: 9,312

    I'd say fantasy is the hardest genre to write satisfying conclusions for. The big evil is often built up to be insurmountable so it's almost impossible to come up with ways for the protagonists to beat them without it feeling either too contrived or something that's been done hundreds of times before (We have to shoot the dragon in it's one weak spot with this massive arrow!). The problem with GoT is D&D were offered both the time and the budget to come up with something satisfying but just couldn't be arsed anymore. They even had the bullet points from GRRM summerising the ending so they didn't even have to worry about that.
     
  15. VincentHanna

    Capodecina

    Joined: Jul 30, 2013

    Posts: 17,516

    Agreed.

    There's no guarantee the final books will be good either though.
     
  16. Moothead2

    Sgarrista

    Joined: May 23, 2011

    Posts: 9,312

    Of course there isn't, but I can guarantee they won't feel as thrown together as Seasons 7 & 8, rushing from plot point to plot point and becoming an incoherent mess in the process. My point was more they could have made the journey better as they didn't have to worry about coming up with an ending, rather than the ending being inherently good because it came from GRRM.
     
  17. Washout

    Wise Guy

    Joined: Jul 2, 2003

    Posts: 1,597

    Just wondering, do you hate/dislike the episodes in and of themselves or just the bigger picture when you piece them all together? Last two eps, I thought were good taken on their own. Three was a bit of a let down (albeit spectacular), two was really good and the first was a little average for me.
    I think it's almost the inverse of the complaints you see during a normal season. Always getting muppets complaining nothing is happening, but when the seasons showpiece episode has aired the season as a whole is lauded by those same folk.

    This season has been show piece after showpiece but without the filler that made it so rewarding.
     
  18. Moothead2

    Sgarrista

    Joined: May 23, 2011

    Posts: 9,312

    It's hit an miss out of context. Some areas are improved like Jaime and Tyrion's conversation in episode 5 (Jaime gave up his honour to save the innocent and Tyrion shouldn't want his sister to survive) but other aspects get even worse. How is this small girl sneaking up on the NK, why does Varys think she's mad when all he has to go off is her looking sad at the feast? etc. Some issues don't change like the poor battle plan at WF and Rhaegals death.

    Visually everything has been stunning. The acting has been the best it's ever been (outside of a few characters from the earlier seasons like Tywin and Oberyn), the music is incredible and the set design and CGI are Oscar worthy.

    It would make an average but stunning standalone film series but it's a terrible final season of GoT.
     
  19. Steedie

    Man of Honour

    Joined: Jun 29, 2004

    Posts: 19,429

    Location: Oxfordshire

    This sums it up perfectly
     
  20. Tombstone

    Capodecina

    Joined: Aug 17, 2007

    Posts: 17,115

    Blakes Seven, which had a gobsmacking finale.