Poll: Winter Is Coming - HBO's A Game of Thrones [READ WARNING]

[Moothead2]

Regarding the north being free and not the other kingdoms - The North was a free kingdom until the Targaryen rule. So it is only relatively recently it became part of the 7 Kingdoms so it isn't too surprising for it to be asked and granted that they have their independence back.

They all were, that was the whole point of the conquest.

Even worse is the fact that Dorne and the Iron Islands have been fighting for independence for far longer than the north seemingly has so it's ridiculous that Yara and 'Unnamed Dornish Prince' didn't even mention it. The Iron Islands have attempted two rebellions in a single generation and Yara's whole motivation for supporting Daenerys was the promise of independence.


The treatment of Edmure in this scene ****** me off too. They completely ignore that the Riverlands came out much worse from the wars than the North. Lands burned to the ground and millions likely murdered. And yet Edmure gets treated like a complete joke despite living in captivity for 5 years because her brother couldn't keep an oath to the Frey's. This is the first time we see him and Sansa/Arya interact, the least we could get from them would be an apology, not a snarkily tell him to sit down. He cares about the small folk, is willing to carry out his duty and seems to be a pretty decent commander, so laughing him off is so disrespectful after what he'd been through, especially considering most of it was down to the North's war and Robb's disloyalty to the Frey's.

 

[Andrew_McP]

If Martin got taken by the Lord of Unfinished Fiction and someone was to suddenly decide on a GoT II in a few years, it wouldn't be hard to bring back just about anybody; D&D set the bar pretty low for deus ex typewriter. So having Bran the Broken start to have nightmares during a 'Rebuilding the 6 Kingdoms' series, which turn out to be from Walker/Night King POVs, culminating with him looking down at himself at Winterfell then waking with blue eyes and getting out of his chair at the very end of the series, wouldn't be hard to imagine.

Or have Jon discover NightKingsville and do an Alien, disturbing stuff that shouldn't be disturbed. Maybe there's a deep ice cavern into which a curiously familiar dragon has frozen, coiled around something. I mean, there's idiots in California freezing themselves while waiting for a cure for being dead, so why not Dany, who's been absorbing latent NK vibes for a while and will be reborn as the Night Queen when Jon goes all regretful sleeping beauty on her. Her first act is to leave him to freeze in the ice while choosing Ghost as her companion instead... just to annoy the CGI team.

When I met him last year he was asked to give a description of how he though it ended and I thought it was brilliant

That would, indeed, have been a more darkly satisfying ending than the one we got. But then so would a volcano under Dragonstone going off, Krakatoa style, before the final battle for King's Landing, taking everyone in the region out in a wave of pyroclastic flow and ash.

I think we're going to be playing what-if for a long time with Game of Thrones. Who knows, given the depth of feelings on this, a team of Redditors could even put out an alternative episode or two of 'Fan Frones' using the Unity engine. Stranger and more ambitious things have happened... Like Star Citizen. My money's on Fan-Frones being finished first

The treatment of Edmure in this scene ****** me off too.

The whole humour thing got way out of control. The bit about Tyrion not making it into the tale of Ice and Fire was even more ridiculous. Made no sense at all.

 

[Rroff]

Iron Islands and presumably Dorne had fully committed to Dany. They, the unsullied and dothraki wanted Jons head. What makes you think they'd accept him as a King if he's not going to be executed?! It would have been war. No doubts about it. They'd have probably lost despite having the largest standing armies left but that's irrelevant.

IIRC though the details are spread out over several series there are reasons there involving ships and the resources and abilities for building them in numbers.

 

[Moothead2]

The whole humour thing got way out of control. The bit about Tyrion not making it into the tale of Ice and Fire was even more ridiculous. Made no sense at all.

Tyrion probably had the biggest part to play in the whole thing. He was playing an active role from start to finish.

To be honest the second half of the episode is one of the worst pieces of television I'd ever watched. I was honestly sat there laughing at it at 3am. The only part I like was Jon entering Castle Black then ******* off north though I hated how he got there.

 

[CHokKA]

He mostly didn't want to be king because when he found out he could be.... it meant overthrowing a woman he loved. Jon has not wanted to be a leader from the first episode to the last... yet before the final episode he had led the black watch, led the north, led armies against the undead, led armies against Kings Landing, led expeditions into the north both to scout wildlings and to go after the Night King.

Just because he doesn't want to be King because it means Dany being dead/imprisoned or an extreme outside shot of being persuaded to **** ***, but then he still loses her, doesn't mean he wouldn't accept the job when it's thrust upon him. IN fact the entire 8 seasons implies that if leadership was thrust upon him he'd not only take it, he'd do a better job than anyone and be a just ruler.

Exactly. Thank you for emphasising my point. Jon has been shown throughout all the previous seasons to be a man of good character that will do the best for his people, putting them first before himself. He'd have taken the throne in a heartbeat if it meant a just and worthy ruler sitting on it, because that's the kind of man he is. But the last season has been shown to completely ignore every major character's history, character and story, and this has made a mockery of the show.

And everyone, knowing his track record of leading and being victorious in every major battle he's fought, and doing the right thing for others, would have accepted him without putting up any argument, especially given that he's the rightful king by blood and nobody has a stronger claim. If he had already been made king before he'd killed Dany, and then he killed her, nobody would have even questioned it, so it's laughable that it suddenly becomes an issue. And his family would have made it known that he was the rightful heir after he'd been imprisoned, so this storyline makes no sense either. Are we honestly expected to believe that Arya and Sansa would just stand by and watch whilst he gets carted away into the dungeon? It's pathetic. I literally cannot understand what the point of him being revealed as Aegon Targaryen, only for it to not even be mentioned in the finale. It's laughable. It's just another plot-point that was completely ignored and overlooked in the final season. I still can't believe that there are people defending season 8 like it was some amazing revelation to the story. It's done nothing to reference anything that's happened before. It might as well have just been a standalone show.

 

[Washout]

He mostly didn't want to be king because when he found out he could be.... it meant overthrowing a woman he loved. Jon has not wanted to be a leader from the first episode to the last... yet before the final episode he had led the black watch, led the north, led armies against the undead, led armies against Kings Landing, led expeditions into the north both to scout wildlings and to go after the Night King.

Just because he doesn't want to be King because it means Dany being dead/imprisoned or an extreme outside shot of being persuaded to **** ***, but then he still loses her, doesn't mean he wouldn't accept the job when it's thrust upon him. IN fact the entire 8 seasons implies that if leadership was thrust upon him he'd not only take it, he'd do a better job than anyone and be a just ruler.

Exactly. Thank you for emphasising my point. Jon has been shown throughout all the previous seasons to be a man of good character that will do the best for his people, putting them first before himself. He'd have taken the throne in a heartbeat if it meant a just and worthy ruler sitting on it, because that's the kind of man he is. But the last season has been shown to completely ignore every major character's history, character and story, and this has made a mockery of the show.

And everyone, knowing his track record of leading and being victorious in every major battle he's fought, and doing the right thing for others, would have accepted him without putting up any argument, especially given that he's the rightful king by blood and nobody has a stronger claim. If he had already been made king before he'd killed Dany, and then he killed her, nobody would have even questioned it, so it's laughable that it suddenly becomes an issue. And his family would have made it known that he was the rightful heir after he'd been imprisoned, so this storyline makes no sense either. Are we honestly expected to believe that Arya and Sansa would just stand by and watch whilst he gets carted away into the dungeon? It's pathetic. I literally cannot understand what the point of him being revealed as Aegon Targaryen, only for it to not even be mentioned in the finale. It's laughable. It's just another plot-point that was completely ignored and overlooked in the final season. I still can't believe that there are people defending season 8 like it was some amazing revelation to the story. It's done nothing to reference anything that's happened before. It might as well have just been a standalone show.

I'm not for a second saying he wouldn't make a good king or leader. It would have to be thrust upon him as with every other time he's gotten power. He'd do a good job, assuming he wasn't Neded off 6 months later.
No, everyone wouldn't just accept him. You're ignoring the fact that the unsullied, dothraki and at least two of the other kingdoms would kick off about it. They want his head, nevermind being their King!
Jon does the right thing, you really think he'd accept the unwanted thrust upon mantle of king if it lead to more conflict? That would be out of character and make a mockery of the show.

Having a King they accept, who can't father children and Jon getting to go home north was the best outcome. Just because you wanted to see him on the throne doesn't make it a crap decision.

 

[Rroff]

The whole humour thing got way out of control. The bit about Tyrion not making it into the tale of Ice and Fire was even more ridiculous. Made no sense at all.

Archmaester Ebrose was not a particularly nice person (EDIT: Though the official wiki states he was kindly and patient with his students upto a point and did in the end deal fairly with Sam) and IIRC didn't like Tyrion (seemed to be somewhat cut from the same cloth as Tywin) so wouldn't be surprising if he wrote him out.

Still seemed to be done more for comedic effect though.

 

[chroniclard]

Table scene with new small council was great.

 

[dl8860]

yeah. last "long night" was thousands of years, according to a guy at work. this one was about 4 hours. people all over Westeros went to kip and woke up the next day having missed it all. look up "anti-climax" in the dictionary, probably has the GoT logo there.

Well they probably discovered too late last time that dragonglass could kill them. The combination of Samwell and Jonno managed to research, source and weaponise it. Daenerys was there with her Dragons. Winterfell is known as one of the hardest castles to assault. It wasn't perfect, but just because the last long night was 1000 years, this one doesn't need to be too. They stopped it there because Jon Snow is a bloody legend and assembled an awesome army to repel them. I know the episode wasn't amazing, but just because the living one (at great cost) doesn't mean the threat was never a serious thing.

 

[Moothead2]

Archmaester Ebrose was not a particularly nice person (EDIT: Though the official wiki states he was kindly and patient with his students upto a point and did in the end deal fairly with Sam) and IIRC didn't like Tyrion (seemed to be somewhat cut from the same cloth as Tywin) so wouldn't be surprising if he wrote him out.

Still seemed to be done more for comedic effect though.

It's literally impossible to write him out without excluding half the story though, regardless of what the person who wrote it thought of him. If anything he'd include him and portray him poorly, there's more than enough material for him to do that.

- His kidnap started the War of Five Kings.
- Won his freedom through trial by combat in the Vale
- Was Hand of the King to Joffrey
- Played a pivotal role in defending KL in the Battle of the Blackwater while acting hand
- Was Master of Coin when Tywin took over as Hand
- Framed and tried for King Joffrey's murder
- A Prince of Dorne fights and ultimately dies fighting as his champion in a trial by combat and he gets senteced to death
- Escapes with the help of his brother, the Kingslayer and Knight of the Seven Kingdoms
- Kills Tywin ******* Lannister
- Escapes to Essos and becomes Hand to Daenerys Targaryen
- Successfully brokers peace with the Masters of Meereen, at least for a time
- Gets arrested for treason by Queen(?) Daenerys and steps down as Hand to the Queen
- Survived the Battle of Winterfell, sacking of KL and single-handedly brought a new political system to Westeros while on trial for treason

It's for comedic effect, nothing more.

 

[G-MAN2004]

I quite like this theory about where Drogon could be taking Dany's body. It makes sense and is far more satisfying than having her simply dead.

https://www.reddit.com/r/gameofthro...ilers_fan_theory_daenerys_is_future_queen_of/

 

[FrankJH]

The fact that he didn't immediately shows he's freaking incompetent and the rule of Bran is destined to be weeks long.

Completely and utterly over the top and like everything - 2+2 never equals 4 with you.....more like 4000000

 

[monkentage]

I quite like this theory about where Drogon could be taking Dany's body. It makes sense and is far more satisfying than having her simply dead.

https://www.reddit.com/r/gameofthro...ilers_fan_theory_daenerys_is_future_queen_of/

People are still coming up with these complex theories

Surely by now they must have learnt that anything that can't be described in three sentences wasn't going to happen.

 

[G-MAN2004]

People are still coming up with these complex theories

Surely by now they must have learnt that anything that can't be described in three sentences wasn't going to happen.

It's just nice to imagine that something better happens than what we were actually given.

 

[jonneymendoza]

Because the people who elected a new king, had no right to. Again one side conquers the throne, a bunch of people who didn't conquer the throne then decided that even without control of the city in any way at all they'd decide it's outcome. THe conversation started off as we (the unsullied) won the city, we are in the city, it is ours. Kings/queens is irrelevent, they won it. If a group who had no king or queen, but simply a plain old elected leader beats out the sitting leaders/rulers of a land, then they rule it.

THe unsullied said it was theirs, then a bunch of different people said, well we're putting this guy in charge of it... yeah, but the unsullied control it. They can put whoever they want in charge of it and at that exact time Grey Worm was the most senior man in the city, he was their defacto leader.

Having no king or queen is irrelevant, power is relevant. Baratheon could have taken over the 7 kingdoms by beating the mad king and declared himself lord regent of the sewer people, it's his army that won the battle, it's his army that secured the throne. Should he not have named himself king, the rest of the lords don't get to just say well we elected a new king so you're out. THe power came from the force and him being the leader of his army, not from a specific title.

Well said.

The ending made no sense at all. Its as if they didnt know how to end it well

 

[Rroff]

It's literally impossible to write him out without excluding half the story though, regardless of what the person who wrote it thought of him. If anything he'd include him and portray him poorly, there's more than enough material for him to do that.

- His kidnap started the War of Five Kings.
- Won his freedom through trial by combat in the Vale
- Was Hand of the King to Joffrey
- Played a pivotal role in defending KL in the Battle of the Blackwater while acting hand
- Was Master of Coin when Tywin took over as Hand
- Framed and tried for King Joffrey's murder
- A Prince of Dorne fights and ultimately dies fighting as his champion in a trial by combat and he gets senteced to death
- Escapes with the help of his brother, the Kingslayer and Knight of the Seven Kingdoms
- Kills Tywin ******* Lannister
- Escapes to Essos and becomes Hand to Daenerys Targaryen
- Successfully brokers peace with the Masters of Meereen, at least for a time
- Gets arrested for treason by Queen(?) Daenerys and steps down as Hand to the Queen
- Survived the Battle of Winterfell, sacking of KL and single-handedly brought a new political system to Westeros while on trial for treason

It's for comedic effect, nothing more.

A lot of that could be glossed over, other people given credit or other events given greater significance, etc. though obviously it would be criticised by an impartial observer, etc. it happens all the time in the real world. Part of the premise is Tyrion was considered a monster and suffers prejudice his whole life and it was only a moment of weakness by Tywin that he even lived at all.

I tend to agree it was done for comedic effect however.

 

[jonneymendoza]

10000 years prep. Falls at the first line of defence. 7 seasons of the ominous ‘winter is coming’. There really wasn’t any reason to worry.

Killed by a teenager at that

 

[Rroff]

I quite like this theory about where Drogon could be taking Dany's body. It makes sense and is far more satisfying than having her simply dead.

https://www.reddit.com/r/gameofthro...ilers_fan_theory_daenerys_is_future_queen_of/

Asshai sounds a lot like Lovecraft's R'lyeh.

 

[2013]

Personally, I think it's a little funny and perhaps shows how hard it is to do a good ending, when people keep posting 'It should have ended like this...' and give a really bad idea, that would have been terrible in my opinion.

The point is its not a bad ending but its not upto the same standards as the last 7.

 

[Moothead2]

A lot of that could be glossed over, other people given credit or other events given greater significance, etc. though obviously it would be criticised by an impartial observer, etc. it happens all the time in the real world. Part of the premise is Tyrion was considered a monster and suffers prejudice his whole life and it was only a moment of weakness by Tywin that he even lived at all.

I tend to agree it was done for comedic effect however.

You could make arguments some of them can sure, but others are undeniably huge moments that wouldn't be glossed over or revised. Tywin Lannister, Hand of multiple kings and one of the most prominent and feared lords of Westeros killed by his own son wouldn't be glossed over, being the treasonous hand to Mad Queen Daenerys wouldn't be glossed over, being accused and found guilty of killing his own Nephew, the king of the Seven Kingdoms wouldn't be glossed over.