Nobody is raging. Some people however are so fragile that they see any disagreement with them as violence or rage.
Wokery
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Nobody is raging. Some people however are so fragile that they see any disagreement with them as violence or rage.
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It comes across from myself posting the top ten youtube thread that the people who laugh at us moaning about " the woke stuff " just don't seem to watch all the things shown on youtube and are only informed from televised media and newspapers?
Maybe if we all educated them on the things actually going on in the world they would realise?
Maybe if we all educated them on the things actually going on in the world they would realise?
To be fair, the weight thing is actually valid, because it's a serious health problem in much of the western world.
The colour of pants is just guff and incredibly un-interesting.
The continued acceptance that being overweight is to be accepted as fine , and in some cases even celebrated, is actually a problem.
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Im not sure if its being celebrated or not but a hell of a lot of people are over weight. The models arent saying 'Hey look at my body' they are saying ' Hey look how these knickers look on my body'.
Are we shunning 'fat' people now?
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No Tony, it's the same story, we're sick of the moaning and the victimhood....more youtube for you...
There has been a growing call for more plus sized models and it is very evident now that many retailers have started doing this. This worries me that it will only make being overweight even more acceptable.
To clarify I'm not looking at this from an aesthetic viewpoint. I don't think simply not showing an unhealthy model is "shunning" fat people.
What annoys me, is that we have a serious health issue with overweight people, yet we now have overweight models all over the place, which will naturally make being so more acceptable.
I see that only serving to exacerbate the public health issue.
What do you think of the below Tony? Are you able to maintain some consistency with this silly position?
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-39821036
BBC said:
Im not sure if its being celebrated or not but some people are underweight. The models arent saying 'Hey look at my body' they are saying ' Hey look how these knickers look on my body'.
Are we shunning 'skinny' people now?
Do you understand why Frace put that into law and why the industry is discouraging the use of very skinny, potentially unhealthy models? If you can grasp that can you understand that being overweight or obese is a far bigger health issue?
The problem is it moved from ridiculously skinny women to just slim, fit women.
We started to see some of this woke nonsense when people kicked off about the "are you beach body ready" advert:
I mean I've seen fitness adverts aimed at men that feature muscular guys yet they don't seem to cause much controversy, but apparently, this adverts was super damaging - it features a healthy model who works out, not an anorexic/heroin chic types with a serious eating disorder and is for a company selling protein shakes!
The SJWs kicked off, that sort of thing is controversial/harmful for the "woke", yet obese models are stunning and brave etc..
Now it's progressed to Victoria's secret dumping the "angels" - I'd assumed they were supposed to be aspirational etc.. everyone is well aware that most women aren't, 5' 11" freaks with beautiful faces a slender figure and also a decent bust, that's completely unattainable, a tiny % are built that way...
I guess they've not yet gone for the obese though AFAIK, a US women's footballer and an Indian actress have been named so far, they're just a bit older than the typical "angle" but still in shape:
https://www.businessinsider.com/vic...-no-longer-relevant-to-brand-2021-6?r=US&IR=T
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I prefer a chubby chick over a skinny one though..
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Soldato
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How can something that is unattainable be aspirational? How is it healthy for firms, through marketing, to push people to aspire to the impossible?
My understanding of the Victoria's Secret situation is that's it's not really to do with bowing to this mythical "wokeness" that people keep frothing over, it's more to do with the rigidity of their business focus leading to them getting left behind by emerging trends.
Demand in ladies underwear has shifted from uncomfortably sexy to a more comfortable style derived from athletic wear, the brass at Victoria's Secret arrogantly tried to weather the storm in the belief that this was a fad and now they're playing catch up.
At the end of the day wokeness isn't shaping the market, market forces are, just like they always have.
It's the same with the plus size model debate. Marketing isn't normalising or driving weight gain in society, weight gain in society is driving marketing because if 90% of your market is over weight, and you only use size 0 models you're a) an idiot and b) failing to connect with your key demographic.
Completely agree with what you say about society driving marketing. However, companies have a social responsibility to show what is correct and healthy, even if it doesn't appeal to their core demographic.
A perfect example, as bad as they are, is of McDonald's pushing their healthier options. Most of their happy meal adverts that I've seen show the fruit and water options.
Most supermarkets, as we know, cater to the general population yet their adverts will show a wide range of produce with a typical focus on fruits, vegetables and meats.
Shame there isn't a... healthy middle ground, eh?
Its an advert for Protein world....their key demographic is exactly the people who are aiming to look like that
The very fact that you think that her look is "impossible" kind of displays how damaging the current trend of frowning on fit and healthy models is. It isn't impossible at all. It just takes discipline and hard work.
You are correct about market forces for some brands, but that doesn't make it right and will only serve to make matters worse (in terms of people's health).
Is this a serious post?
Women for decades have been slaughtered for having what is a normal body yet a dad bod is celebrated by the media. The pressure on women to have bodies like the one pictured is ridiculous and only until recently is that opinion changing.
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It's a completely different situation though isn't it? McDonalds food has a tangible impact on health. Marketing high fat, high sugar foods to kids for instance has been considered problematic for a good while now. However I don't believe marketing clothes to overweight people has the same impact. Nobody is going to look at those husky blokes boxers ads for instance and actively undertake an action that will increase their weight based on the ad, unlike an advert for junk food.
People rally against seeing plus sized models in ads as if it's glamorousing the idea of being overweight, it's not. What it is doing is showing people that they aren't excluded from society just because they're fat, and given the impact social exclusion and depression has on a person's ability to manage their weight, that is probably a net positive.
I just think the whole clothing angle is a massive red herring when it comes to the obesity debate. Yes we need to tackle the problem, no clothing advertisements are not anywhere near the top of the tree in terms of impact.
What do you think of the below Tony? Are you able to maintain some consistency with this silly position?
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-39821036
Im not sure if its being celebrated or not but some people are underweight. The models arent saying 'Hey look at my body' they are saying ' Hey look how these knickers look on my body'.
Are we shunning 'skinny' people now?
Do you understand why Frace put that into law and why the industry is discouraging the use of very skinny, potentially unhealthy models? If you can grasp that can you understand that being overweight or obese is a far bigger health issue?
The problem is it moved from ridiculously skinny women to just slim, fit women.
We started to see some of this woke nonsense when people kicked off about the "are you beach body ready" advert:
I mean I've seen fitness adverts aimed at men that feature muscular guys yet they don't seem to cause much controversy, but apparently, this adverts was super damaging - it features a healthy model who works out, not an anorexic/heroin chic types with a serious eating disorder and is for a company selling protein shakes!
The SJWs kicked off, that sort of thing is controversial/harmful for the "woke", yet obese models are stunning and brave etc..
Now it's progressed to Victoria's secret dumping the "angels" - I'd assumed they were supposed to be aspirational etc.. everyone is well aware that most women aren't, 5' 11" freaks with beautiful faces a slender figure and also a decent bust, that's completely unattainable, a tiny % are built that way...
I guess they've not yet gone for the obese though AFAIK, a US women's footballer and an Indian actress have been named so far, they're just a bit older than the typical "angle" but still in shape:
https://www.businessinsider.com/vic...-no-longer-relevant-to-brand-2021-6?r=US&IR=T
We agree on something
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Its an advert for Protein world....their key demographic is exactly the people who are aiming to look like that
The very fact that you think that her look is "impossible" kind of displays how damaging the current trend of frowning on fit and healthy models is. It isn't impossible at all. It just takes discipline and hard work.
You are correct about market forces for some brands, but that doesn't make it right and will only serve to make matters worse (in terms of people's health).
I was responding to dowies point about Victoria's Secret, not the protein world ad.
Lol wat? When have women been slaughtered for being a normal weight or having a normal body?
Cant be that much pressure given that over 60% of the adult population in the UK isn’t at a normal weight but is overweight or obese!
Quite easily, simply be something people find desirable. Have you never seen adverts before?
I'm not sure there are any health risks from making people desire fancy lingere.
More like them just trying something because their brand got a bit stale, embrace wokeness because everyone is doing it now...
Since when did they only use size 0 models?
VS became a major brand during the 90s and the fashion show ran from the mid 90s till 2018, all through that time there have been plenty of fat Americans.
Soldato
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For me , for something to be aspirational it needs to be achievable, a key aspect of aspiration is working towards betterment, if that's impossible then the goal isn't aspirational, it's just unachievable.
Marketing firms may tell you that what they are selling is aspirational, but in many cases similar not.
The health risks come from an industry feeding the pressure that many women feel to conform to a certain image in order to be considered attractive. The mental health impacts of this are well documented. Providing a more diverse representation through advertising helps to tear down some of the damaging concepts thats have arisen linking body image to self worth.
Unsubstantiated nonsense. The market place has changed demonstrably, VS have not, they've failed to adapt like so many companies before them.
Size 0 was hyperbole levelled at the fashion industry in general and their tendency to favour slim models. The fact of the matter is by tending to feature only slim or athletic models they alienate a decent chunk of the marketplace.
I don't see what the relevance of the last paragraph is, unless you're questioning why this has only just become an issue? The answer to that would be multifaceted, the issue with VS is probably more down to their failure to adapt to styles, but an increase in the body positivity movement also means that there is now an expectation that brands mirror their customers, so VS can choose to focus on slim sexy folk, or they can increase their potential market by being more inclusive, they chose the latter option.
The fact of the matter is, no matter how much this forum seems to think otherwise, not every action a company takes in the direction of inclusion is some kind of hippie leftist pandering to the "woke" crowd. Time will tell, the adage is "go woke, go broke" right? So if they suffer on the back of this then it's pandering to the minority, if the situation improves then it's reacting to the demands of their customers. Though I suspect there will be some further excuse as to why that wouldn't represent an indication that people actually want change. The whole debate is very tiresome.
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