Woolwich serious incident

Weazle said:
I don't think it took long to plan .... it would've been "hey let's get a gun & knife to do some carnage near the barracks." .... I would guess doing something like this (getting the weapons & driving to the destination) would take less than an hour. This wasn't an elaborate plot at all and more of a spur of the moment crime just like the most number of knife/gun murders in the UK.
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that was my point due to the simplicity of it you can't do much to prevent it.
 
Skunkworks said:
I like this idea.

Take away indoctrination before education and religion will all but vanish in a genration or 2.
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I guess we better make sure kids don't know the truth about the easter bunny, santa claus and the tooth fairy until they are 18 too.

How would you even enforce this? :confused:
 
Schools these days are teaching RE (Religious Education) I think it is a good idea to teach children different religions and cultures to give them better understanding. Without it then soceity would become even more narrow minded toward different religions than they are today.
 
dirtychinchilla said:
You've made no comment on my actual point?

It's like when the BNP wheel out that Indian immigrant who says he also hates immigrants. Well ******* done, you've found an immigrant who doesn't like immigrants. Big surprise! And an Indian who doesn't like Indians; another massive surprise!
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Isn't not really a surprise.

I suppose it may be actually when you choose to stick your head up your arse when it comes to the negative effects of free movement of cultures.

But that's okay you keep banging your Indian missus while other people get beheaded, IT'S ALL GOOD.

Show some empathy to those who are victims!
 
Rroff said:
If it was a question purely of the ethical issue as the tone of the original post you can't really put cost into the equation as a balancing factor.
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As far I knew Badcompany was talking about banning religious education overall, this obviously includes the removal of the link between religion and the state school system.

I feel that both would be detrimental. One, children need to learn about religion, like it or not it plays a huge part in human society and interaction, not teaching them will increase prejudice and misunderstanding between often disparate religious and cultural groups. We should have a more ecumenical system (although you touched on this below) as many Christian Schools currently do, where they teach, not only the religion to which they are connected, but a range of others as well.

Secondly, I think that the infrastructure and funding given by the religious institutions is not easily replaced and its removal would be detrimental to our children's education.

Regulation is the key and ensuring a broad education in all things, including religion and beliefs, especially those not shared by the child's families.

Having said that, I see no barrier to removing the link if said funding and infrastructure was replaced and that RE is broad in scope across multiple religions and philospophies and the broad ethos of our schools is culturally appropiate.

Rroff said:
Something I'd overlooked when I replied to his post tho is that not all faith schools and increasingly less in Christian backed schools (no idea on other religions) push their religion onto their students.
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The latter is very true, increasingly state faith schools, particularly those of CofE or Catholic ethos do not limit RE to their specific religion. The Catholic school my son attended teaches a range of religions and philosophies including Atheism. It does however retain a Catholic ethos, which is frankly a general 'be nice, respect, love each other' liberal ideal of behaviour. You can also request that your child is excused from religious education and assemblies if you want.

The problem comes in unregulated religious schools, such as Islamic Madrassas and some Jewish institutions...

Technically faith schools form almost all state funded schools in England, due to the requirement to teach RE under the national curriculum, as yet, and correct me if there is one I am unaware of, there are no truly secular schools in England.
 
UncleRuckus said:
Isn't not really a surprise.

I suppose it may be actually when you choose to stick your head up your arse when it comes to the negative effects of free movement of cultures.

But that's okay you keep banging your Indian missus while other people get beheaded, IT'S ALL GOOD.

Show some empathy to those who are victims!
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I will do that.

I have empathy for the victims, and I also have empathy for the people whose countries we enter who die too, and whose deaths are unreported.

I agree that certain cultures have a negative effect, but the minority should never represent the majority! Some people seem to have an incredibly hard time understanding this. It's taken me a while to realise myself.
 
dirtychinchilla said:
"no children allowed 'on' religion until they're 18"

Sounds like the thought police to me. You know full well that this could never work and is just another, ridiculous, level of control.
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Not thought police, just not programming them with primative, unevidenced superstitious nonsense when they're too young to make an informed decision on it.
Janesy B said:
I guess we better make sure kids don't know the truth about the easter bunny, santa claus and the tooth fairy until they are 18 too.
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Comparing religion to the easter bunny and santa?
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The difference is they are fun little stories that we tell children, and they do not persist into adulthood, and certainly doesn't dictate anyones lifestyle choices or decisions.
Janesy B said:
How would you even enforce this? :confused:
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I just said I like the idea of it, I didn't say anything about implementing or enforcing it.
 
Skunkworks said:
Comparing religion to the easter bunny and santa?
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The difference is they are fun little stories that we tell children, and they do not persist into adulthood, and certainly doesn't dictate anyones lifestyle choices or decisions.
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I don't have much time for religion personally, I just believe people should be left to get on with their own lives without the state dictating what choice you make. What do you do about Religions that have ceremonies for people under 18, you would make it illegal to practise certain religions... no holy communions, no bat/bar mitzvah.. it's so impractical I don't even know where to start.

Yes probably in an ideal world we would all make an informed decision about what our beliefs are but it's so ingrained in family and cultural tradition you just can't get rid of it.
 
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