Woolwich serious incident

C.R.A.Z.Y said:
Nonsense, the core EDL members/supporters are life long criminals, football hooligans, neo-nazi thugs .etc They have simply hijacked the issue to try and justify there violent criminal behavior and far right racist views.
Like I said, utter criminal scum that do nothing but exacerbate the problem, just like the radicalized extremists they are an embarrassment to our country and stand for nothing that is English!!
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I think murdering soldiers on the streets of Woolwich exacerbates the problem more than anything the EDL does.
 
C.R.A.Z.Y said:
Nonsense, the core EDL members/supporters are life long criminals, football hooligans, neo-nazi thugs .etc They have simply hijacked the issue to try and justify there violent criminal behavior and far right racist views.
Like I said, utter criminal scum that do nothing but exacerbate the problem, just like the radicalized extremists they are an embarrassment to our country and stand for nothing that is English!!
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Crazy, we've been over this Neo-Nazis want nothing to do with pro Zionist organisations.

I like how you say their "violent criminal behaviour" to gloss over that someone on our streets has been beheaded by Islamic extremists. It's hilarious that you would even contrast the two and then go to infer that the white populous should shut up and deal with it. :D

GUYS WE HAVE A REAL PROBLEM WITH WHITEY :mad:
 
You might have a different view if one of your family, friends or loved ones were blown to pieces had Omar Khan, Zohaib Ahmed, Jewel Uddin, Mohammed Saud, Mohammed Hasseen and Anzal Hussain been successful in their EDL bomb plot!!

No I'm not saying we should shut up about it, as a matter of fact I'm a massive Hitch, Dawkins, Krauss ..etc fan and despise religions of all flavors. However the BNP/EDL are the last people on Earth that we want heading the movement/ideas to help solve the issue. They make it worse and anyone with an once of common sense can see this!!
 
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Forget identify as Christians, a few hundred thousand go to church and very few of them know the doctrines of their religion, we are in no way a Christian country, isn't Christianity meant to be a religion of peace, what a ******* joke hundreds of millions have been killed and tortured by "Christians", pathetic.
 
C.R.A.Z.Y said:
You might have a different view if one of your family, friends or loved ones were blown to pieces had Omar Khan, Zohaib Ahmed, Jewel Uddin, Mohammed Saud, Mohammed Hasseen and Anzal Hussain been successful in their EDL bomb plot!!
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Yeh! Shut up whitey we have bombs you're not allow to protest.

As for bombs, there was no EDL when the London bombing happened or the failed Exeter bombing either.
 
C.R.A.Z.Y said:
You might have a different view if one of your family, friends or loved ones were blown to pieces had Omar Khan, Zohaib Ahmed, Jewel Uddin, Mohammed Saud, Mohammed Hasseen and Anzal Hussain been successful in their EDL bomb plot!!

No I'm not saying we should shut up about it, as a matter of fact I'm a massive Hitch, Dawkins, Krauss ..etc fan and despise religions of all flavors. However the BNP/EDL are the last people on Earth that we want heading the movement/ideas to help solve the issue. They make it worse and anyone with an once of common sense can see this!!
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LOL wut?!

You are blaming the EDL for the muslims trying to bomb them, because of the possible consequences of collateral damage?

"if the EDL didn't exist, we wouldn't have radical muslims try and blow them up".
 
deanolfc said:
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That's this thread TBH!
 
sports_brah said:
"if the EDL didn't exist, we wouldn't have radical muslims try and blow them up".
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Makes sense...if the EDL didnt exist then they couldn try and blow them up because they wouldnt exist.

So if you're going to be an EDL member dont be born otherwise you may make someone blow you up :p
 
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Bombs are always going off in islamic countries and the people look as muslim as ever.
if your going to ask santa for something this christmas then it best not be the destruction of islam....wont happen in your lifetime.
 
dirtychinchilla said:
That's just wrong. They have to bend their culture to meet ours, and we have to do a small amount of the same.
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It's a bit more than just a "bend" in some respects

Incidents such as the Woolwich attack are an extreme manifestation of the frustraghtions that exist throughout much of the Muslim community. Yes, a tiny minority would contemplate/support such an attack, but significantly more support the sentiment behind it.

Many of the difference's aren't purely cultural. They've been enshrined in law/policy and would require a chnage in law/policy if diffrences are to be reconciled. Religious law for example, isn't widley know for it's flexibility.

Foreign policy is a large sticking point. So is freedom of expression, be that religious, political or sexual etc. Equality for all is also at odds with what you call Muslim "culture" but in reality is Islamic law. These views aren't nesisarily "extreme", but it's very hard to see how they're compatible with the majority of UK public opinion. I just can't see a satisfactory compromise.

There's only one way you can resolve conflict without bloodshed, that's at the ballot box. The issue for Muslims is, they're a minory comunity with a strong cultural identity but will always been out voted on policy issues. The electoral system dosen't offer a voice for minority views so the more moderate message gets compleatly ignored. I'm sure the Muslim community feel they do already "bend" to fit.

Then there's the extreme views which are held by a small but significant number, which are clearly intolerable but continue to be shouted very loudly by supporters, and creates more resentment from all.
 
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Stretch said:
It's a bit more than just a "bend" in some respects

Incidents such as the Woolwich attack are an extreme manifestation of the frustraghtions that exist throughout much of the Muslim community. Yes, a tiny minority would contemplate/support such an attack, but significantly more support the sentiment behind it.

Many of the difference's aren't purely cultural. They've been enshrined in law/policy and would require a chnage in law/policy if diffrences are to be reconciled. Religious law for example, isn't widley know for it's flexibility.

Foreign policy is a large sticking point. So is freedom of expression, be that religious, political or sexual etc. Equality for all is also at odds with what you call Muslim "culture" but in reality is Islamic law. These views aren't nesisarily "extreme", but it's very hard to see how they're compatible with the majority of UK public opinion. I just can't see a satisfactory compromise.

There's only one way you can resolve conflict without bloodshed, that's at the ballot box. The issue for Muslims is, they're a minory comunity with a strong cultural identity but will always been out voted on policy issues. The electoral system dosen't offer a voice for minority views so the more moderate message gets compleatly ignored.

Then there's the extreme views which are held by a small but significant number, which are clearly intolerable but continue to be shouted very loudly by supporters, and creates more resentment from all.
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This is nonsense. Most muslims who live here are perfectly happy co-opting muslim beliefs with the law of the land.

There is an issue with the extremists. Not the culture per se. We also have issues with other extremes. They're not alone.
 
Captain Planet said:
Some what of an exaggeration.


Source
Between 2001 and 2011 there has been a decrease in people who identify as Christian (from 71.7 per cent to 59.3 per cent) and an increase in those reporting no religion (from 14.8 per cent to 25.1 per cent). There were increases in the other main religious group categories, with the number of Muslims increasing the most (from 3.0 per cent to 4.8 per cent).
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That data probably doesn't show you the true picture... a breakdown by age groups would perhaps be more useful in terms of getting an idea as to whether Christianity is on the decline in the near future. For example I'd suspect that these is a bigger drop in identifying as Christian/bigger increase in reporting no religion among younger age groups... less so for middle aged people and even less so for elderly/retired people... the current generation of elderly people will be dead in the near future... the portion will likely increase... as the current younger generation have kids etc.. the portion will likely increase further. I don't think the idea that superstitious beliefs such as Religion will reduce significantly as society as a whole becomes better educated/enlightened and generally progresses is particularly flawed.
 
inogen said:
This is nonsense. Most muslims who live here are perfectly happy co-opting muslim beliefs with the law of the land.

There is an issue with the extremists. Not the culture per se. We also have issues with other extremes. They're not alone.
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I agree the majority do accept it, and many are happy. But many are also unhappy about the bad treatment of Muslims in other countries and also feel their cultural identity is threatened by conflicting majority cultural values enshrined in law.

I also agree that it's not only the Muslim community that has issues with extreamists.
 
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dowie said:
That data probably doesn't show you the true picture... a breakdown by age groups would perhaps be more useful in terms of getting an idea as to whether Christianity is on the decline in the near future. For example I'd suspect that these is a bigger drop in identifying as Christian/bigger increase in reporting no religion among younger age groups... less so for middle aged people and even less so for elderly/retired people... the current generation of elderly people will be dead in the near future... the portion will likely increase... as the current younger generation have kids etc.. the portion will likely increase further. I don't think the idea that superstitious beliefs such as Religion will reduce significantly as society as a whole becomes better educated/enlightened and generally progresses is particularly flawed.
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:confused: I don't see how that point relates to mine regarding dirtychinchillas claim that "The country may be built on Christianity, but that's the past. It's not going to be existing as a Christian country for much longer". If you think Christianity will disappear with the next few generations, I think you are mistaken.
 
Stretch said:
I agree the majority do accept it, and many are happy. But many are also unhappy about the preserved bad treatment of Muslims in other countries and also feel their cultural identity is threatened by conflicting majority cultural values.

I also agree that it's not only the Muslim community that has issues with extreamists.
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Many are happy and many aren't?

Like people then?

The majority of muslims are happy and well adjusted. Some aren't. Like people of all creeds and religions. It's the extremists from all sides that are the issue.
 
dowie said:
That data probably doesn't show you the true picture... a breakdown by age groups would perhaps be more useful in terms of getting an idea as to whether Christianity is on the decline in the near future. For example I'd suspect that these is a bigger drop in identifying as Christian/bigger increase in reporting no religion among younger age groups... less so for middle aged people and even less so for elderly/retired people... the current generation of elderly people will be dead in the near future... the portion will likely increase... as the current younger generation have kids etc.. the portion will likely increase further. I don't think the idea that superstitious beliefs such as Religion will reduce significantly as society as a whole becomes better educated/enlightened and generally progresses is particularly flawed.
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Indeed.

I deal with some stats as part of my job:

Males and females
All socio economic groups
Age 25-45
East Anglia region

I know it's a small sample, but out of that group around ~85% indentify as non-religious.
 
Captain Planet said:
:confused: I don't see how that point relates to mine regarding dirtychinchillas claim that "The country may be built on Christianity, but that's the past. It's not going to be existing as a Christian country for much longer". If you think Christianity will disappear with the next few generations, I think you are mistaken.
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Christianity doesn't have to disappear for the country to not be a Christian country much longer.
 
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