Woolwich serious incident

MrMoonX · 20 Jul 2013 at 13:05

Hikari Kisugi said:
I've seen teeth out for all manner of reasons, its not likely, but if he was being restrained and was fighting free, its possible his head came into contact with a table edge, or similar surface, at a specific angle it can take teeth out.
Doesn't happen often, but teeth do get knocked out, and more commonly it isn't a fist has taken them.

Also the guy is non-Caucasian, so he has a higher likelihood of gum disease, he is also fundamentality Islamic, so he might directly follow the Holy Book, which had writing involving cleaning ones teeth with 'a stick', which if the only form of cleaning might lead to rapid deterioration.

There could exist reasons why his teeth might not be able to withstand much of a knock, but its simply a case of 'perhaps' and 'maybes', and frankly I don't care. I just don't want my taxpaying money paying for an investigation, or worse, compensation for this murderer.

Well it sounds like there were five officers involved you only need 3 to deploy c&r one should have been in charge of the head to prevent injuries to it the other two the arms and a fourth for the legs if required. That is how prison service control and restraint in done! In 10 years I've never heard of anyone getting their teeth smashed! Yeah sure lots if arm injuries but the head is the number one priority to protect in these incidents!

I hope they hang these officers out to dry! I've met many prison officers mostly ex-military who go out of their way to provoke prisoners and use it as an excuse to dive in on a prisoner. After what this guy has done I'm betting a bunch of ex-army screws got one in on him

n111ck · 20 Jul 2013 at 13:11

dowie said:
Is the suspension an indication that this incident was dodgy or is it more routine when anything like this needs to be investigated?

It will be purely because of the notoriety of the prisoner - if this was some random it wouldn't have got in the papers.

End of the day the officers are just doing their job and have every right not to be injured whilst doing it - if that means some violent nonce loses a few teeth then really so what?

AtreuS · 20 Jul 2013 at 13:17

He should count himself lucky.... if he had pulled this in the 70's he would have "fallen down some stairs gov" about 20 times by now

n111ck · 20 Jul 2013 at 14:05

I'm a bit disappointed that the other inmates haven't already had a go TBH.

d_brennen · 20 Jul 2013 at 15:21

He's probably shacked up with some like minded fools

Rimsy · 20 Jul 2013 at 16:16

Xordium said:
Some people would argue that when you commit an atrocity like this chap did you waive your human rights. It is to those I would address the point. I accept I could have phrased that better - let me try again.

Unfortunately when you champion human rights you have to start the fight championing the cause of those who do not respect those rights for other people.

Does that make more sense?

Unfortunately the delusional types who champion human rights don't quite understand the concept that some people are just plain evil and do not deserve human rights.
If they did we could be putting more funding towards mending the world and not defending filth.

Xordium · 20 Jul 2013 at 16:22

Rimsy said:
Unfortunately the delusional types who champion human rights don't quite understand the concept that some people are just plain evil and do not deserve human rights.
If they did we could be putting more funding towards mending the world and not defending filth.

Read the first sentence ... already covered it for you.

Rimsy · 20 Jul 2013 at 16:24

Xordium said:
Read the first sentence ... already covered it for you.

didnt see your other post but I was backing up what you were saying not disagreeing

Xordium · 20 Jul 2013 at 16:27

Rimsy said:
didnt see your other post but I was backing up what you were saying not disagreeing

I said some may argue from that point I didn't say I agreed with them.

Destination · 20 Jul 2013 at 22:15

Rimsy said:
Unfortunately the delusional types who champion human rights don't quite understand the concept that some people are just plain evil and do not deserve human rights.
If they did we could be putting more funding towards mending the world and not defending filth.

One could take the view that certain 'people' are wired wrong, for a host of reasons, brain injury/malformation/damage, chemical imbalance, genetic predisposition to various actions/thought/lack of empathy.
One could follow this view by saying such people are not 'people', and therefore don't deserve the respect, rights and responsibilities associated with normality, human rights included.

badcompany · 20 Jul 2013 at 22:17

couldn't care less what happens to them. they are 1000% guilty no shadow of a doubt so lets bring back hanging.

Xordium · 20 Jul 2013 at 22:43

Hikari Kisugi said:
One could take the view that certain 'people' are wired wrong, for a host of reasons, brain injury/malformation/damage, chemical imbalance, genetic predisposition to various actions/thought/lack of empathy.
One could follow this view by saying such people are not 'people', and therefore don't deserve the respect, rights and responsibilities associated with normality, human rights included.

One could but one shouldn't because it goes into very dangerous territory because then you have to define what is a "person" in quite specific and concrete terms than would exclude quite a few people and quite a few groups.

Xordium · 21 Jul 2013 at 10:25

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk-news/2013/jul/21/michael-adebolajo-repeatedly-targeted

On one hand his brother says "they've made it very difficult having correspondence with him"

and yet:

"We have written correspondence, and I speak to him every day, which details the fact that certain guards were hostile."

So which on is it then?

scorza · 21 Jul 2013 at 10:33

MrMoonX said:
Well it sounds like there were five officers involved you only need 3 to deploy c&r one should have been in charge of the head to prevent injuries to it the other two the arms and a fourth for the legs if required. That is how prison service control and restraint in done! In 10 years I've never heard of anyone getting their teeth smashed! Yeah sure lots if arm injuries but the head is the number one priority to protect in these incidents!

I hope they hang these officers out to dry! I've met many prison officers mostly ex-military who go out of their way to provoke prisoners and use it as an excuse to dive in on a prisoner. After what this guy has done I'm betting a bunch of ex-army screws got one in on him

Tbh if any prison officer is found to have done anything wrong in the case of this particular prisoner then I hope they get the punishment they deserve - a £1 fine.

Mr Jack · 21 Jul 2013 at 10:34

I hope this is properly investigated and the officers fired if proven.

Fus Ro Dah · 21 Jul 2013 at 11:33

Mr Jack said:
I hope this is properly investigated and the officers fired if proven.

What the hell is wrong with you? The guy beheaded a soldier in public... and you want to protect him? You obviously aren't British :mad:

Xordium · 21 Jul 2013 at 11:38

Fus Ro Dah said:
What the hell is wrong with you? The guy beheaded a soldier in public... and you want to protect him? You obviously aren't British

Why wouldn't he be British? Sorry does not compute for me.

Castiel · 21 Jul 2013 at 11:59

Fus Ro Dah said:
What the hell is wrong with you? The guy beheaded a soldier in public... and you want to protect him? You obviously aren't British

Alternatively he supports the Rule of Law, something which is a fundamental basis of British Justice, a system of Justice that is emulated across the world.

Mr Jack · 21 Jul 2013 at 12:14

Fus Ro Dah said:
What the hell is wrong with you? The guy beheaded a soldier in public... and you want to protect him? You obviously aren't British

Born and raised, actually.

Yes, I want to maintain all that is best about Britain: fair play, justice, and so on. It's not this particular scumwad I want to protect: it's the principles and standards of British justice. His punishment needs to be decided by the courts not delivered by thuggish prison officers. A prison officer who batters a prisoner is not fit to do their job and should be removed from their post before they decide to batter the wrong person.

It is by doing this that we demonstrate how much better we are than people like Adebolajo.

Xordium · 21 Jul 2013 at 12:19

Well said Mr Jack.