World of Warcraft: Classic
- Thread starter agnes
- Start date
I’m unsure as I think it’ll be some hybrid of current and vanilla rulesets. Which ones make it in will define it for me.
As for the new expansion, I am so unenthused. How many more islands are they going to dig up in the sea? What sets it apart from previous expansions? I see nothing that excites me, hopefully that changes.
As for the new expansion, I am so unenthused. How many more islands are they going to dig up in the sea? What sets it apart from previous expansions? I see nothing that excites me, hopefully that changes.
We should find out more info about the ruleset today as there's a Q&A at 11:00 PM.
I'm interested to see how they'll do it. I'm fully expecting a non-100% vanilla experience in some way and they'll adjust something, either by popular demand or a game mechanic that was bad then and would be bad now. Hopefully it's as close to vanilla as possible.
As for future content I wonder how they'll roll it out, or if they if they will. Like will we eventually see Dire Maul? Or in 3 years will TBC arrive? When will the game start? (such as day 1 mode or will it already have things like AQ20/40 in). If the content doesn't shift forward at all, or at a pace too slowly, I can imagine people not playing it beyond a few months.
I'm interested to see how they'll do it. I'm fully expecting a non-100% vanilla experience in some way and they'll adjust something, either by popular demand or a game mechanic that was bad then and would be bad now. Hopefully it's as close to vanilla as possible.
As for future content I wonder how they'll roll it out, or if they if they will. Like will we eventually see Dire Maul? Or in 3 years will TBC arrive? When will the game start? (such as day 1 mode or will it already have things like AQ20/40 in). If the content doesn't shift forward at all, or at a pace too slowly, I can imagine people not playing it beyond a few months.
Soldato
It was just a matter of time before they decided to cash in on the popularity of vanilla.
Please just give the full content with a graphics reboot, and not make an **** of it like usual.
Please just give the full content with a graphics reboot, and not make an **** of it like usual.
Permabanned
Vanilla was great at the time but I doubt I would play it again. Its just rose tinted specs. 
Eurogamer managed to get some questions asked to Brack, they are great answers for some things:
Source is here.
I've highlighted an important one in yellow
------------------------
Eurogamer: When is WOW Classic going live?
Brack: We don't know yet. Just like every Blizzard game.
Eurogamer: And I suppose you're not ready to talk, in any detail, about how it'll work?
Brack: Some of the reason for why we're not ready to talk about that is... we actually don't know yet. The important announcement today was: we're doing this. We've heard the community, we've heard our own internal teams, we've heard all the comments over the years. When it comes to the details, we don't know all of the answers just yet.
Eurogamer: The unofficial servers were clearly a huge factor in Blizzard's decision to return to vanilla WOW. Am I right in thinking the Nostalrius team provided you with access to their build at some point?
Brack: Yeah, they did. We did a dungeon run with some of the folks, it was an old school Scholomance run. It was interesting.
Eurogamer: Anything jump out at you that you'd forgotten about old school World of Warcraft?
Brack: Yeah, I'd forgotten that whenever you buffed one of your party members with Intellect, you had to actually sit down and drink after that. Then you stood up, buffed another party member with Intellect and then you had to drink again. It's a much slower pace. There's a lot of prep time.
Eurogamer: Do you think there'll be a line to walk for the team, then? Somewhere between creating that authentic experience that people have asked for, while also figuring out what doesn't make sense anymore? For example, with the Intellect buff, is it important to you that players do need to drink after casting it?
Brack: Yes. That's part of the level 60 experience. Our goal is to recreate that classic 1-60 gameplay. Some things changed as time went on, with different patches. How does that get manifested? That's one of the outstanding questions. But yeah, the goal is to recreate that exact experience, for better or for worse.
Eurogamer: How far into this process are you? Do you have a build that you can actually play, internally, and figure some of this stuff out?
Brack: We've got some infrastructure stuff in place. We've got an old build that's up and running that we're using for reference. Most of this job is going to be infrastructure: making sure everything can work on a more modern setup. Then there'll be the design questions, ones that the community will have strong opinions on: should UBRS be 10-person, or 5-person? Things like that.
Eurogamer: What are the big issues that you're going to need to face here? You mentioned during the presentation that the server infrastructure that was there originally, is no longer in place. In fact, the way the game was programmed at that point must be wildly different to today. What else is there?
Brack: You've highlighted the big ones. Before we started work on this project, we couldn't actually run vanilla WOW. The hardware is different. The operating systems are different. There was no way for it to just work.
Eurogamer: How are players going to pay for WOW Classic?
Brack: No idea.
Eurogamer: Okay. What happens if WOW Classic ends up being a huge success? That's potentially expensive for Blizzard in terms of server cost, right?
Brack: That's a problem for future us. I mean, it's a great problem. I think there will be a lot of initial interest and then some sustained interest. But if if happens, we'll figure it out then.
Eurogamer: I've had a number of interview with the WOW team in which I've asked about Legacy servers and you couldn't talk about it. So, why it's happening now? What's changed?
Brack: We said for several years that if there was a way for us to flip a switch and have it work, we'd flip that switch. It's not something that we didn't want to do for any arbitrary reason. There were legitimate, significant technical reasons.
Eurogamer: ... are we talking about months of development before this goes live, or years?
Brack: This is a massive effort. This is a very, very significant effort. I would not expect it to be soon. We actually don't know when we're going to release it. I know that's a generic answer that we give for all of our Blizzard titles, but with this one, we don't actually know how long it will take.
Eurogamer: But do you suspect we're talking about months here, or years?
Brack: This is a massive effort.
Eurogamer: Ha, alright then. A couple of years ago, there was a quote going around from you after somebody asked you about legacy servers. You told them it's not actually something they'd want to play.
Brack: I'm familiar with that quote [laughs].
Eurogamer: Have you changed your mind since then?
Brack: I think the sentiment I was trying to communicate back then was: nostalgia is a very real thing. But that doesn't diminish the fact that there are people that want that game experience, right? I think sentimentality and nostalgia are worthwhile. I wasn't trying to say that players didn't deserve this thing or anything like that.
Eurogamer: Are you expecting players to come back to vanilla WOW and properly invest in that game, or just have a look around for nostalgia's sake?
Brack: Both, I think. One of the things we do know is that by announcing this, we're in the WOW Classic business forever. Once that starts, there's a commitment on our end that we're going to continue maintaining those servers for as long as there is a World of Warcraft. I think there will be people that come and do the nostalgia trip, they go to the Barrens and find Mankrik's wife, and then they're done. That's fine. Some amount of people, however, are going to create a new Classic community and that's what we'll be providing.
Eurogamer: Has Blizzard maintained a relationship with the people behind the unofficial legacy servers? I know the Nostalrius guys visited Blizzard at one point.
Brack: We've talked to Daemon and Viper, the leads for that project, a handful of times since that visit.
Eurogamer: Do you see them being more heavily involved in WOW Classic?
Brack: We would welcome their involvement, for sure. I think one of the challenges is that they're both French and so there's a little bit of a visa concern, but we'd be open to it. They're very passionate and strong Blizzard fans, clearly.
Source is here.
I've highlighted an important one in yellow
------------------------
Eurogamer: When is WOW Classic going live?
Brack: We don't know yet. Just like every Blizzard game.
Eurogamer: And I suppose you're not ready to talk, in any detail, about how it'll work?
Brack: Some of the reason for why we're not ready to talk about that is... we actually don't know yet. The important announcement today was: we're doing this. We've heard the community, we've heard our own internal teams, we've heard all the comments over the years. When it comes to the details, we don't know all of the answers just yet.
Eurogamer: The unofficial servers were clearly a huge factor in Blizzard's decision to return to vanilla WOW. Am I right in thinking the Nostalrius team provided you with access to their build at some point?
Brack: Yeah, they did. We did a dungeon run with some of the folks, it was an old school Scholomance run. It was interesting.
Eurogamer: Anything jump out at you that you'd forgotten about old school World of Warcraft?
Brack: Yeah, I'd forgotten that whenever you buffed one of your party members with Intellect, you had to actually sit down and drink after that. Then you stood up, buffed another party member with Intellect and then you had to drink again. It's a much slower pace. There's a lot of prep time.
Eurogamer: Do you think there'll be a line to walk for the team, then? Somewhere between creating that authentic experience that people have asked for, while also figuring out what doesn't make sense anymore? For example, with the Intellect buff, is it important to you that players do need to drink after casting it?
Brack: Yes. That's part of the level 60 experience. Our goal is to recreate that classic 1-60 gameplay. Some things changed as time went on, with different patches. How does that get manifested? That's one of the outstanding questions. But yeah, the goal is to recreate that exact experience, for better or for worse.
Eurogamer: How far into this process are you? Do you have a build that you can actually play, internally, and figure some of this stuff out?
Brack: We've got some infrastructure stuff in place. We've got an old build that's up and running that we're using for reference. Most of this job is going to be infrastructure: making sure everything can work on a more modern setup. Then there'll be the design questions, ones that the community will have strong opinions on: should UBRS be 10-person, or 5-person? Things like that.
Eurogamer: What are the big issues that you're going to need to face here? You mentioned during the presentation that the server infrastructure that was there originally, is no longer in place. In fact, the way the game was programmed at that point must be wildly different to today. What else is there?
Brack: You've highlighted the big ones. Before we started work on this project, we couldn't actually run vanilla WOW. The hardware is different. The operating systems are different. There was no way for it to just work.
Eurogamer: How are players going to pay for WOW Classic?
Brack: No idea.
Eurogamer: Okay. What happens if WOW Classic ends up being a huge success? That's potentially expensive for Blizzard in terms of server cost, right?
Brack: That's a problem for future us. I mean, it's a great problem. I think there will be a lot of initial interest and then some sustained interest. But if if happens, we'll figure it out then.
Eurogamer: I've had a number of interview with the WOW team in which I've asked about Legacy servers and you couldn't talk about it. So, why it's happening now? What's changed?
Brack: We said for several years that if there was a way for us to flip a switch and have it work, we'd flip that switch. It's not something that we didn't want to do for any arbitrary reason. There were legitimate, significant technical reasons.
Eurogamer: ... are we talking about months of development before this goes live, or years?
Brack: This is a massive effort. This is a very, very significant effort. I would not expect it to be soon. We actually don't know when we're going to release it. I know that's a generic answer that we give for all of our Blizzard titles, but with this one, we don't actually know how long it will take.
Eurogamer: But do you suspect we're talking about months here, or years?
Brack: This is a massive effort.
Eurogamer: Ha, alright then. A couple of years ago, there was a quote going around from you after somebody asked you about legacy servers. You told them it's not actually something they'd want to play.
Brack: I'm familiar with that quote [laughs].
Eurogamer: Have you changed your mind since then?
Brack: I think the sentiment I was trying to communicate back then was: nostalgia is a very real thing. But that doesn't diminish the fact that there are people that want that game experience, right? I think sentimentality and nostalgia are worthwhile. I wasn't trying to say that players didn't deserve this thing or anything like that.
Eurogamer: Are you expecting players to come back to vanilla WOW and properly invest in that game, or just have a look around for nostalgia's sake?
Brack: Both, I think. One of the things we do know is that by announcing this, we're in the WOW Classic business forever. Once that starts, there's a commitment on our end that we're going to continue maintaining those servers for as long as there is a World of Warcraft. I think there will be people that come and do the nostalgia trip, they go to the Barrens and find Mankrik's wife, and then they're done. That's fine. Some amount of people, however, are going to create a new Classic community and that's what we'll be providing.
Eurogamer: Has Blizzard maintained a relationship with the people behind the unofficial legacy servers? I know the Nostalrius guys visited Blizzard at one point.
Brack: We've talked to Daemon and Viper, the leads for that project, a handful of times since that visit.
Eurogamer: Do you see them being more heavily involved in WOW Classic?
Brack: We would welcome their involvement, for sure. I think one of the challenges is that they're both French and so there's a little bit of a visa concern, but we'd be open to it. They're very passionate and strong Blizzard fans, clearly.
Soldato
If they pull this off and make it work well I can see me getting back into WoW. Hopefully they'll announce more details in today's panels.
Caporegime
Vanilla was great at the time but I doubt I would play it again. Its just rose tinted specs.
I don't know I played Elysium last year and it was fantastic. Only problem is I am not a single teenager anymore so just do not have the time to play it to the level I would like. One thing they need to keep is realm only battlegrounds. Cross realm ruined the community.
Sounds from that interview like they are suggesting it could be years rather than months before this happens. He repeatedly says how massive a task this is, I dont know what I'm talking about of course but I dont see why this is such a massive task for them to be able to do. There are several private vanilla servers up and running (and running very well) by people who are frankly amateurs with little inside knowledge of running an MMO, of how WoW works and on a limited budget and hardware. If someone like that is able to do it effectively I dont see why Blizzard is saying its such a difficult thing to do, given that they are professionals with a huge knowledge of the workings of WoW on a near endless budget and with access to any hardware they want. It seems to me a little bit like Mr Odiham, a Post Office worker of Watford creating a manned spacecraft capable of interplanetary flight in 6 months and it working but then NASA saying oh no, its SO difficult, it will take us years and years to be able to do that.
They only did that because player numbers were dropping and some servers emptied. So queues were never ending on some.
The current Blizzard is not the old one though. The good developers are long gone.
There are so many questions about this before we know how good it could be.
Will they keep the game engine the same but basically remove all of the expansion content?
Will they actually use old builds of the game, complete with bugs etc?
Really, they'd have to keep it as true to the original game as possible, if it's just the current game with the expansions removed, it'll get boring very quickly. If it has the massive depth of the original (large talent trees, good gear being harder to get, lots to grind), but with any big problems fixed, it could be interesting.
I played the original WoW quite a bit and what made it so good were the communities on the servers themselves, rather than the actual game. It's good the new one won't have things like LFR, etc. TBC was fine too, then it slowly started going downhill, with a few high points.
I don't believe Blizzard for one second when they say it's hard to do - they just haven't wanted to do it. They'll have old builds of the game and they will be able to get it running on the modern servers.
Will they keep the game engine the same but basically remove all of the expansion content?
Will they actually use old builds of the game, complete with bugs etc?
Really, they'd have to keep it as true to the original game as possible, if it's just the current game with the expansions removed, it'll get boring very quickly. If it has the massive depth of the original (large talent trees, good gear being harder to get, lots to grind), but with any big problems fixed, it could be interesting.
I played the original WoW quite a bit and what made it so good were the communities on the servers themselves, rather than the actual game. It's good the new one won't have things like LFR, etc. TBC was fine too, then it slowly started going downhill, with a few high points.
I don't believe Blizzard for one second when they say it's hard to do - they just haven't wanted to do it. They'll have old builds of the game and they will be able to get it running on the modern servers.
I'm expecting at least a 18 months for Classic, and that's being optimistic. I agree that their "massive undertaking" or "huge effort" comments are utter rubbish, as Tombstone mentioned that if a bunch of amateurs with no access to the source code, very little budget and limited hardware can do it as a private server then Blizzard should be able to have this done in a few months with a dedicated team. But I think that they'll purposely take far beyond a few months because they'll not want to collide with Battles of Azeroth expansion or take any wind out of its sail closer to launch, and probably don't have a dedicate team for it and will instead just take some of the expansion team after that launches.
Hoping for some more answers from Q&A tonight.
Also, from the questions that Eurogamer asked, the fact UBRS being a question of whether it should be 10 man or 5 man should immediately tell people that they are likely to mess with it.
Hoping for some more answers from Q&A tonight.
Also, from the questions that Eurogamer asked, the fact UBRS being a question of whether it should be 10 man or 5 man should immediately tell people that they are likely to mess with it.
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About 3 years ago I played on a full vanilla server for ages, leveled about 4 characters and had a great time. Should be awesome on a Blizzard quality server with all the correct mechanics.
It's because Blizzard can't release a half arsed version like a private server can, it has to be Blizzard level quality.
It's because Blizzard can't release a half arsed version like a private server can, it has to be Blizzard level quality.
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Don
Aye, have to think that Classic will be released at a point when they think the numbers playing the new expansion start to drop off as they won't want to canabalise subcriptions from one to the other and then losing both after a bit of time.
UBRS was originally 15 if I remember correctly. Have to agree though, Vanilla was good because of the social aspect of it, there was a few crap things for sure some of which I doubt anyone will have any issue with if they are fixed (single flight paths for example), but things like regents for spells I didn't have a problem with (maybe tweak them so hunters or warlocks didn't have to fill their entire bags with stuff to see them through a 4 hour raid, same with maybe extending the original paladin buffs a bit rather than 5 minutes). I don't want to see LFG teleports to dungeons/cross realm type stuff as that when things started going wrong in my opinion though I understand why Blizz did it originally when server populations started declining.
UBRS was originally 15 if I remember correctly. Have to agree though, Vanilla was good because of the social aspect of it, there was a few crap things for sure some of which I doubt anyone will have any issue with if they are fixed (single flight paths for example), but things like regents for spells I didn't have a problem with (maybe tweak them so hunters or warlocks didn't have to fill their entire bags with stuff to see them through a 4 hour raid, same with maybe extending the original paladin buffs a bit rather than 5 minutes). I don't want to see LFG teleports to dungeons/cross realm type stuff as that when things started going wrong in my opinion though I understand why Blizz did it originally when server populations started declining.
Yeah using it as a bump in subscriptions would make a lot of sense.
I can't remember UBRS being 15 man, could only remember the 10 man version. I remember 10 man Scholomance though, that place rocked
I wouldn't mind seeing LFG finder in some fashion. Being teleported to the dungeon with a bunch of people you've never met and will likely never see again sucked, they might as well have been bots. It's the cross-realm stuff that wrecked it for me. If it was your own realm only, and you also had to manually go to the dungeon yourself as part of the experience, then I'd be fine with that. People used to get names for themselves with it being your own server, you got to know people, saw familiar names, some started to be psuedo-celebrities so to speak and it was part of the community feel. I can still to this day rattle off at least 15 names of people who were iconic on my server because of the reputation they made for themselves through dungeons and PvP but if it was cross-realm that wouldn't have been the case.
I can't remember UBRS being 15 man, could only remember the 10 man version. I remember 10 man Scholomance though, that place rocked
I wouldn't mind seeing LFG finder in some fashion. Being teleported to the dungeon with a bunch of people you've never met and will likely never see again sucked, they might as well have been bots. It's the cross-realm stuff that wrecked it for me. If it was your own realm only, and you also had to manually go to the dungeon yourself as part of the experience, then I'd be fine with that. People used to get names for themselves with it being your own server, you got to know people, saw familiar names, some started to be psuedo-celebrities so to speak and it was part of the community feel. I can still to this day rattle off at least 15 names of people who were iconic on my server because of the reputation they made for themselves through dungeons and PvP but if it was cross-realm that wouldn't have been the case.
Exactly this. Easy to solve though, just run a small number of classic realms and intentionally "overcrowd them".
Soldato
I think those "moaning" also think it was great but feel the majority of old players don't remember the bad things about it too.
Many of the bad things were part of the charm though, IMO.
Soldato
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