Would you abandon Windows in favor of Linux for gaming?
- Thread starter SteveOBHave
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What a load of crap. Ubuntu is miles easier to use than Windows, all the advanced settings are available from the GUI exactly the same as Windows. It also 'just works' from a default install - you really can't make it any more retard friendly than that
You don't have to use the Terminal at all if you don't want to.
No it isnt, he's right.
Personally I use both on a daily basis as some of the software I make use of is Linux/Unix only. As it stands I have become reasonably profficient with both, but I still dread the day that i start up my linux partition and X fails to start for some reason, or something else.
Now I know most of my problems are because I am running cutting edge distros (tend to stick with Fedora, currently running core 11, as it works out of the box with my soft-raid setup) as well as cutting edge HW etc, and I don't blame "Linux" per se for the issues. It's just the nature of the beast.
But until the day comes that for example, like in Windows, I can just goto the NVIDIA website, download their latest drivers, double click it, click a few next buttons, restart and its done, Windows will always be the consumer OS of choice. As it stands, once you know to goto init level 3, logon as root, and type "sh drivername" then NVIDIA have made it all pretty painless, but there is still talk of kernel building, and I need to make sure I have the kernel src installed etc etc. It just isnt simple enough for many people yet. And tbh im not convinced it ever will be.
Of course there is the argument that people should use the third party driver packages from YUM, but my experience is that, for newer hardware, they are simply never new enough builds to make it worthwhile. The only way I have ever got this 8800M GTX SLI setup to work is by directly installing NVs own latest driver.
It has a user base already, they are typically savvy users who arnt scared by the word compile or source, they know how to run a make command and what it is doing... and that user base is the one developing the product.
Unless somebody tries to make a commercial go of Linux, and does a better job than that windows clone did (cant remember the name of the distro) then chances are things wont change. And tbh, whether somebody should make a comercial go of Linux is another matter entirely, does that not fly in the face of what linux is all about?
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Yes it is. He's wrong and so are you.
I use Ubuntu, Mac OS X and Windows 7 every day. There is no need to mess around with drivers in Linux, make them work once and that's it, so your scenario is nonsense.
If you wanted to compare installing apps, then Linux is much easier than Windows. Open a terminal and sudo apt-get and it's done.
Linux:
Mum: "How Do I install a nice game of sudoku dear?"
Me: "open a terminal, type sudo apt-get"
Mum: "Sorry, Suwhat?, how do you spell that? wheres the terminal?"
Many minutes later...
Mum: "Ok its flashing some text, i cant read what its saying its whizzing by, is it done? how do i start it?"
Me: "Have a look through the program menu, can you see it?"
Mum: "No"
me: "Ok, have a look in <appropriate folder>, what about now?"
Mum: "Oh yes, there it is *clicks icon*, nothing happened dear, it just said that GLX isnt properly installed"
Me: "Oh no your OpenGL config isn't right, i'll be round in a few hours, dont touch it"
Windows:
Mum: "How do I install this sudoku game dear"
Me: "Double click the icon on your desktop where you saved it to"
Mum: "Ok, its asking questions"
Me: "Can you see where it says next?"
Mum: "Yes"
Me: "keep clicking that till it stops asking"
Mum: "Ok, a bar is whizzing across, now it says its done"
Me: "Click ok, then goto the start menu and find the name of the program and click the icon"
Mum: "ok, oh yes, its loaded, thanks dear"
Now thats a facetious example, but tell me i'm wrong.
I am not saying that the way which linux operates is bad, it is not, however it is 100% geared towards people who are not scared of computers, thus windows and oc mac os are the users OS of choice. Even with Mac OS I find it harder to explain the basics of use compared to Windows.
Also with re: to Ubuntu, i tried Heron I think it was a while back on this laptop. it did not work with my soft-raid setup out of the box, so i spent over an hour messing about with the live cd and mdadm, eventually got it all installed, tried to run my OpenGl based app and it didnt work. I then spent ages getting the latest NV driver on, only to kill X. ages later i had the latest NV driver and thought "hmm i'd like some music" at this point i realised its default sound drivers didnt work with this laptops inbuilt soundMax audio.
Eventually I gave up and went with Fedora core 9 (at the time, now 11), which although its default graphics and GL drivers dont work with this laptop, at least its soft-raid and sound drivers worked out of the box.
In comparison both windows Xp and Vista simply install on the soft-raid setup without any hassle, both have inbuilt audio drivers (though i still update them) and installing the graphics drivers and getting full SLI is a piece of cake.
Linux is great at what it does, it has a loyal user fanbase and those people like the way it works and would never go to MSs simpler interface systems.
Personally I have no problem with either, but i spend all day every day on my pc.
For the layperson, the way it currently works is NOT user friendly, my mum would balk at it and would never get used to it, in the same way as she would never have got used to DOS while the modern Windows GUI gives her a graphical base she can form cognitive recognition patterns etc with, and allows her full access to all the functionalty she needs.
And lets not forget, as with windows graphics drivers, IF Linux is going to become a proper gaming platform, things like driver updates WILL become something you have to do on a regaulr basis. Gone will be the current days of people simply using their linux terminal for everything bar a bit of very simple OpenGL code, so when NV releases a new driver, which they do every few months, people will probably have to upgrade to keep their games working, same for sound drivers, chipset drivers, as it currently is with Windows.
Soldato
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You miss the point completely I think.
Whilst it is easy to open the console for many users. Your average PC user couldn't.
Easier for you != Easier.
I remember a while back - around a year in fact when I was messing around trying to use Snort, Nessus and the like. I remember the nightmare of trying to find dependincies. I did, in the end, use somthing like get or the GUI version - but it was a pain in the backside if you don't know about it.
The problem you have with linux is that:
a. there are too many versions - can you imagine supporting all the variations?
b. it's trying so hard not to be windows it actually makes things harder on purpose.
c. the people who use it all expect you to be very proficient with it, it's like an anti-MS elitest society where by if you don't fit in you may as well forget asking for help with any problems.
I'd happily pay £150 for Windows 7 (even though I bought it for £45) Linux whilst being free is free for a reason. It's just not as good as windows.
M.
Yes, and easily. They are only variations in the way things are packaged. And also, just like it is at the moment, you do not support distributions. If it runs on Linux, it runs on any flavour of linux.
Incorrect. It is only different in places where it makes sense to be different.
Not so much the case any more. Just look at Ubuntu. They whole heartedly expect their user base to have absolutely no idea about computers, let alone windows.
This is where you've proved yourself a fan boy. It is free, because it is free. It is Open Source, and by the very nature and litigation of its License, cannot, and will never, have a proprietary product ownership cost associated with it. There are plenty of people paying large amounts of money to Red Hat, SuSE (Novell), HP, Dell, EDS, Slackware, Mandrake, and countless other companies for support contracts. There is plenty of money involved in Linux.
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The money they are paying is for Server versions normally I'm pretty sure you can get red Hat, SuSEm etc. for nothing.
It's not logically different in places. I can't give examples now because it's too long since I used it - but I remember thinking how hard can it be and the answer was very.
If I'm a fan boy because I would pay for an operating system that I genuinely enjoy using and does everything I require it to do then, yes, I plead guilty. With regards to open source, why do people rebadge it then? I'm talking about people who actually charge for it (Red Hat and SuSE did a while back)? Isn't that against the entire nature of it?
M.
P.S. I remember apps like Nessus being free at the time as well - now they are paid for. Interesting isn't it that when somethings popular people have to pay for it. I'd guarantee that is how it would go if there was a really popular vairiant of it.
It's not logically different in places. I can't give examples now because it's too long since I used it - but I remember thinking how hard can it be and the answer was very.
If I'm a fan boy because I would pay for an operating system that I genuinely enjoy using and does everything I require it to do then, yes, I plead guilty. With regards to open source, why do people rebadge it then? I'm talking about people who actually charge for it (Red Hat and SuSE did a while back)? Isn't that against the entire nature of it?
M.
P.S. I remember apps like Nessus being free at the time as well - now they are paid for. Interesting isn't it that when somethings popular people have to pay for it. I'd guarantee that is how it would go if there was a really popular vairiant of it.
In the same way the IE is waaaaaaaayy better than Firefox, Chrome or Opera because its made by a corporate company using their own closed software code?
Soldato
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More in a way of:
MS Office better than Star Office
Dreamweaver better than a note pad / generic html designer
AutoCAD better than LunLX or whatever its called
I do use IE and much prefer it to Chrome / Firefox but thats a personal opinion. At least Microsoft are lightning fast to fix vulnerabilities.
M.
Edit: Doh beaten to it.
I dislike Linux for my personal day-to-day use. Sure for word processing it's fine. Web browsing, also fine. The odd games, the ones that work, given you've sorted your drivers out, fine. Installing new drivers... kernel updates can cause issues. Using my computer as a crossover network bridge - can't even get it to work without staring at the command line for a while trying to figure out how the hell brctl works - conversely in Windows I can do that just by highlighting two icons, right clicking and selecting the appropriate menu option. Also, if apt, yum, whatever package managing system you're using screws up (which in my experience is not a rare situation), you can expect to spend quite a while trying to fix the issue.
There're probably far more issues than the ones I've come up with, that's just how it's been whenever I've had to use a Linux distribution for a while. Sure there're issues like spyware and malware under Windows, but frankly those are easily fixed compared to some of the flaws I've come across using Linux.
There're probably far more issues than the ones I've come up with, that's just how it's been whenever I've had to use a Linux distribution for a while. Sure there're issues like spyware and malware under Windows, but frankly those are easily fixed compared to some of the flaws I've come across using Linux.
Soldato
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You're wrong
Mum, go to the synaptic package manager, type in sudoku, hit enter, tick the sudoku box and click apply.
Go to games and play.
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I assume this is what you meant to say
<sarcasm>At least Microsoft are lightning fast to fix vulnerabilities.</sarcasm>
There have been casees over the last few years where major vulnerabilities have been in MS products for YEARS before they were fixed (and several cases where vulns were reported but nothing was done for over a year until the reporter went public with the info)
I was using the mad rappers example. i did say it was it was facetious.
Package managers have certainly simplified and wrapped things up.
I still maintain however that the general cross platform ethos found within the world of linux/unix of self compilation / make, even the talk of it, inherently makes the platform less user friendly.
if you want to try it out, find an elderly non computer savvy relative, setup a nice Vista box and a nice Ubuntu box (seeing as its supposed to be the most user friendly), and ask them to get on with things.
I reckon they will manage both but feel more comfortable with Windows. Or indeed use MacOS as its a very nice friendly OS also.
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I agree on the OSX front, it is extremely straightforward. In all honesty, I see no variation in the difficulty to use all three. My sister is at this minute using my laptop to sort her CV and she is far from Linux savvy, usen OO and Mint.
But (I assume) she will be young.
it's an age thing, but give somebody for whome comptuing hasnt been a part of their lives since they were very young, veen if they arnt interested, and they are a black art that requires training.
Tell your sister about compilation and she wont be scared, she may not care or want to understand it, but she will do whatever it takes to make it work. Tell my mum about it and she will instantly switch off and not want to even use the pc.
Linux is an enthusiast OS that CAN be made reasonably user friendly, but at its core its aimed at those of us who want to know exactly what our pc is doing.
Windows actually strikes a very good balance, those that like to tweak can, those that dont care to, dont need to and all the while my mum feels "safe" with it as a product.
it's an age thing, but give somebody for whome comptuing hasnt been a part of their lives since they were very young, veen if they arnt interested, and they are a black art that requires training.
Tell your sister about compilation and she wont be scared, she may not care or want to understand it, but she will do whatever it takes to make it work. Tell my mum about it and she will instantly switch off and not want to even use the pc.
Linux is an enthusiast OS that CAN be made reasonably user friendly, but at its core its aimed at those of us who want to know exactly what our pc is doing.
Windows actually strikes a very good balance, those that like to tweak can, those that dont care to, dont need to and all the while my mum feels "safe" with it as a product.
Given that Windows has pretty much held back the development of the PC in terms of innovation (imo) - it would be interesting to think about what gaming would be like if OpenGL had been embraced by all and the open source development model heavily used to further its feature-set and functionality. It would have been (or still could be) awesome, all those developers working on it as the primary API rather than closed-source DirectX....