**XBOX ONE** Official Thread

[Woden]

I dno, I fall down on the side of the idea that gamers arent as dumb as platform owners/publishers think they are, but hey they sell games by the millions while I dont.

Perhaps Im just optimistic in that respect . Personally Im pretty good at action once I start moaning, nor has it ever struck me that Im particularly stupid

EDIT: I did allude to a caveat in a previous post when I mentioned 'established gamers' so perhaps Im more talking about the subset of gamers that have grown up without these measures and so propbably far more likely to have an adverse reaction to such mechanisms.

ps3ud0

Thats the problem ... remember the "Im boycotting mw2" group on steam?

 

[ps3ud0]

Thats the problem ... remember the "Im boycotting mw2" group on steam?

Yep, we joined the slippery slope many years ago, only now are some realising it...

ps3ud0

 

[K1LLSW1TCH]

I imagine EA will continue producing their annual franchises on the current consoles for the next couple of years at least, they're still making games for the Playstation 2 aren't they?

 

[dunker]

why could'nt they just make a better 360? what's all this must be online bs? oi MS make a good games console! what a bunch of muppets! won't be buying this pile of snooping corporate maybe colluiding pieice of carp!

 

[Adam Senior]

I am a 100% xbox super fanboy. Yet, this news and restrictions on the online functions and the time limits when your xbox is offline is just quite frankly appalling.

So I just got my new Xbox one, and I am moving apartment. Yet Its going to take a week to get my internet live. In turn this makes my sexy new games console an over priced Blue Ray player.

This is absolutely bonkers.

Also, how can they say that making the xbox always connected (online) will make it possible for game developers to create persistent worlds. Erm, I played Ultima Online about 15 years ago and when I turned my PC off, that world was still there.

There needs to be something truly amazing shown at E3 for me to even consider the xbox.

I will repeat. I am an xbox fan boy, yet this is just plain silly.

Nuff said. I could go on and on!

 

[dunker]

dont fancy the idea of sky tv knowing what i like, i have free will! i change my mind sometimes, don't i?

your heartbeat does'nt lie, dave. noooooooooooooooo! lol

 

[atpbx]

If Sony refuse to implement DRM and just let you play without any fuss, they kill the Xbox one before it even hits the shelves, regardless of what the publishers want to do.

They have the more powerful console, and the least restrictions, the publishers can't sell games on a console nobody is buying.

Everyone has the internet, everyone will be seeing this and people will be queing round the block to buy PS4 while the X1 will be sat gathering dust.

 

[antijoke]

This whole online DRM thing is frankly ridiculous.

I cannot believe what I'm reading. Just what are they thinking?

 

[kitch9]

I know nothing about it but I would think dedicated hackers would be able to do it. Security is always broken, hence the need for improved security!

The PS3 wouldn't have been cracked at all but because of an error were one of the random keys wasn't random, but the system was easily resecured under another layer of security encryption. With the 360, no one has come close to hacking the OS.

The new machines will be even more secure.

 

[antijoke]

I had this discussion at work the other day, the situation is again more complex than it first seems.

Firstly, many, many of the people who speak out against such things will inevitably not vote with their wallet. They will continue to whine and procrastinate whilst still partaking.

Then you have to wonder what kind of percentage of the people playing the most played games are actually the people buying the consoles. Little 13 year old timmy doesn't care how much games cost because he's not buying them.

I see a lot of meetings going on behind closed doors something to the tune of "so MS are offering a no trade in ecosystem, are you going to do that" and I'm pretty sure publishers want this.

The other consideration regarding DRM and not being able to trade in games is that people LOVE steam, I mean it's popular and theres a great swathe of people who use it and on these forum who want every game to be on steam... But you can't trade any of those games in... Other people usually have the option of not buying there but the mentality definitely exists to accept and even revel in a great online, non physical and non trade able ecosystem.

This is what I figured too.

Which is one of the reasons I personally like the online ecosystem for PC, I can wait until a game is under £10 to take a punt on it. How that works out for the people making or selling the game I have no clue whether that's sustainable.

I just wish there were some workable system of pay as you play or try before you buy, there are so many games I would try for a small price even if I ended up not liking it. This is why I always used rentals when I had xbox & ps3, I could get games for as long or as short as I wanted and it made no difference.

People probably wouldn't like this idea, but a tiered monthly subscription service encompassing all games and delivered digitally would work for me. Devs/Publishers would get a percentage of everyone's sub based on how much people played or downloaded their game. However the major problem with that model is it cuts out retailers =/

That's just the thing, Steam have sales, you can bet your bottom dollar MS won't do that kind of thing. Prices will stay at RRP forever.

I'd love it if they mimicked Steam for sales/pricing but I just know they won't.

 

[wannabedamned]

The PS3 wouldn't have been cracked at all but because of an error were one of the random keys wasn't random, but the system was easily resecured under another layer of security encryption. With the 360, no one has come close to hacking the OS.

The new machines will be even more secure.

Hmm, You say that, And I agree they will have no doubt put all their efforts into securing the system.

BUT. We have 3 operating systems working in unison this time, 1 of which is directly linked to the Windows 8 Kernel.

I imagine hacking it will actually be simpler than before. Dont read that as simple though.

their main saving grace will be the requirement for an internet connection every 24 hours. Although in the long run I can imagine a Proxy could spoof some sort of message allowing the console to carry on playing games offline.

So yeah, That's what I can see in the XboxONEs future.

Hacked local games, spoofed authentication. But no online play

 

[biron_w]

I don't think it's just a question of DRM though. It's not just piracy that's hurting the publishers, it's that and used games.
.

Publishers still make a vast amount of money from used games. This has nothing to do with used games "hurting" them. It's all to do with taking complete control over how new and used games are sold to maximise their profits. It's all to do with greed.

The big question is: who stands to gain the most from these restrictions? I can't see how it's MS, though I may have missed something. To me, the devs and publishers stand to gain the most.

It's publishers that will benefit the most.

This whole online DRM thing is frankly ridiculous.

I cannot believe what I'm reading. Just what are they thinking?

 

[kitch9]

Hmm, You say that, And I agree they will have no doubt put all their efforts into securing the system.

BUT. We have 3 operating systems working in unison this time, 1 of which is directly linked to the Windows 8 Kernel.

I imagine hacking it will actually be simpler than before. Dont read that as simple though.

their main saving grace will be the requirement for an internet connection every 24 hours. Although in the long run I can imagine a Proxy could spoof some sort of message allowing the console to carry on playing games offline.

So yeah, That's what I can see in the XboxONEs future.

Hacked local games, spoofed authentication. But no online play

No-one has got near the 360 and that is running 8 year old security now. The new hardware encryption chips will be many orders of magnitude higher, so unless there's an error made I can't see it happening.

A proxy is great, but every network packet leaving the Xbone will be massively encrypted again so there's no way of really spoofing the authentication packets.

 

[wannabedamned]

You dont need to hack encryption keys to spoof. All you need to see is the pattern, but we'll not go into that

Point I was making about the 360 is its an enclosed and Bespoke system. The XboxONE is 3 Operating systems, 1 of which is based on the Windows 8 Kernel. That's 3 points of entry, 1 of which is based on Windows 8, An abusable operating system\kernel.

That's pretty much why it'll be simpler than the Xbox 360. And again, I'm not saying it will be simple. But More so than what the 360 was initially.
(Thats obviously an educated guess, rather than factual statement)

 

[jimjamuk]

You dont need to hack encryption keys to spoof. All you need to see is the pattern, but we'll not go into that

Er what?.......

 

[Scrutinize]

I can see why this move to internet based authentication and much more stringent DRM is happening; including the restrictions on used sales and loans.

If this step-change meant that new games would be priced more keenly, come down in price much quicker and parallel with regular sales, as demonstrated by the steam 'PC gaming model', then this could be good for the consumer.

It is too early to say how this will pan out but in the short term the backlash is obvious.

They are clearly aiming the consoles at people with good internet infrastructure which is still a sizable % of their main markets in terms of raw consumer numbers, so this won't hurt sales.

Using mobile broadband is fine if you can limit access to authentication and not end up having an auto update of x GB which ends up costing a fortune in data charges.

If this console actually replaces the home PC and does everything a PC will, including all the office/authoring/cad/business software etc then it would be a win-win. I get the impression they may have been aiming for this, ran out of time and have missed the mark on so much at this stage.

Should they manage to launch this as an all in one PC/Console then they could wrap this generation up regardless of the DRM position.

 

[jimjamuk]

I would have been happy if when you bought a game and installed it, it went to the cloud to check it was legit - end of. A one time check its not a dodgy copy or one that has been cloned and redistributed on the Internet. Until then it wouldnt run but once it was "registered" it would run without the need to be connected to the Internet ever again

 

[wannabedamned]

Er what?.......

Well i don't really want to go into more detail, but if you need to look into how you beat encryption, In order to get a handle on what I said. Go look into sniffing WPA, as thats the basic starting point.

It will explain why you dont need to decipher encryption inorder to spoof.

 

[jimjamuk]

Hmm, You say that, And I agree they will have no doubt put all their efforts into securing the system.

BUT. We have 3 operating systems working in unison this time, 1 of which is directly linked to the Windows 8 Kernel.

I imagine hacking it will actually be simpler than before. Dont read that as simple though.

their main saving grace will be the requirement for an internet connection every 24 hours. Although in the long run I can imagine a Proxy could spoof some sort of message allowing the console to carry on playing games offline.

So yeah, That's what I can see in the XboxONEs future.

Hacked local games, spoofed authentication. But no online play

Agree - the hackers will quickly find a way into one of the OS's and remove the online features. MS dont have the best security track record and if one of the OS's is based on the desktop OS then expect the exploits to be in that area.

 

[FoxEye]

Lets take the absurd example that Sony do go through with DRM-less games and EA et al boycott the platform and so Sony and PS4 goes down in flames. Do we really think that the investments these publishers have put in (no doubt you are talking a few years of development for most games) would allow themselves to absorb such a loss of potential revenue?

They would probably make the assumption that, for example, 75% of PS4 owners would buy an XBox if Sony died. So loss of revenue would be smaller than you perhaps suggested.

Then they factor in increased profits from the XBox, due to 2nd-hand activations/ no 2nd-hand allowed.

So maybe, just maybe, the publishers wouldn't be too bothered if Sony flamed out. When SEGA died, I don't remember too many publishers crying over lost revenues. They switched to PS development instead.