Z390- ASUS- Gene PCB breakdown

LambChop · 24 Oct 2018 at 19:01

Distracted said:
Hopefully buildzoid or someone can do a breakdown and clarify things. Or perhaps Asus can come out with more info explaining what is happening.

I think Anan asked Asus, and are waiting on more info. Hopefully soon.

tostitobandito · 24 Oct 2018 at 23:35

Here's some info which was dug up on overclock.net courtesy of some VRM experts there. Basically, it uses a doubled 4 phase as opposed to an 8 phase using doublers as the Maximus X did. Here are some technical details:

There's a driver IC in each of the powerstages and each has a high side, low side, and inductor. Additionally the implementation likely has tri-state PWM support (high/low/off) and current detection such that phases are turned off completely when unused. Given the efficiency and shoot through protection of the SiC639 powerstages it really is a nitpick.

Tech Yes City tested the Hero and had it was cooler than the z390 Taichi that uses doublers with 10x TI NexFETs, so the implementation acts more like an 8 phase.

On M10H/C/F (Maximus X Hero/Code/Formula), there are 4x PWM signals driving 8x power stages (package with driver, high-side and low-side MOSFET). A doubler will interleave a single PWM signal into two power stages, alternatively switching between them. As long as you still have one driver per power stage, the output current capability is roughly the same in both scenarios. What you should watch out for are VRMs where a single driver is used for multiple high-side/low-side MOSFET pairs, which severely increases switching losses.

When using a doubler, much of the behavior is the same as a real 8-phase PWM solution. At any given time only a single power stage will be activated which has benefits like lower input and output ripple. That allows you to use fewer components for input/output filtering. Depending on the specific doubler used, it may still be possible to do current balancing which allows for better thermals.

The primary benefit of using double components (like the Maximus XI Hero/Code/Formula) is faster response time. When you use a doubler, the PWM signal has to go through an additional IC which slightly delays the signal. For example IR3599 has a typical propagation delay of ~10-30 ns.

Distracted · 25 Oct 2018 at 08:23

tostitobandito said:
Here's some info which was dug up on overclock.net courtesy of some VRM experts there. Basically, it uses a doubled 4 phase as opposed to an 8 phase using doublers as the Maximus X did. Here are some technical details:

I've been reading those threads as well. All good info. I've had the formula and a 9900k since release and it is a non issue. I'm just following along now because I'm curious to know what the specs are and to see if Asus provide a response.

Aside from that it would be interesting to know how one VRM implementation compares to the next in terms of efficiency.

orbitalwalsh · 25 Oct 2018 at 09:34

Distracted said:
I've been reading those threads as well. All good info. I've had the formula and a 9900k since release and it is a non issue. I'm just following along now because I'm curious to know what the specs are and to see if Asus provide a response.

Aside from that it would be interesting to know how one VRM implementation compares to the next in terms of efficiency.

Interesting to see how your single 8 pin does vs dual 8/ 8+4 pin since in theory voltage is split more evenly etc

Every board vendor, recommending changing thermal pads , still need to track down Asus pad details but I know they all should be 2 w/km and under (super cheap stuff)

Distracted · 25 Oct 2018 at 09:36

orbitalwalsh said:
Interesting to see how your single 8 pin does vs dual 8/ 8+4 pin since in theory voltage is split more evenly etc

Every board vendor, recommending changing thermal pads , still need to track down Asus pad details but I know they all should be 2 w/km and under (super cheap stuff)

Formula has 8 + 4.

Distracted · 25 Oct 2018 at 09:38

Hero also has 8+4 looking at the images i can find.

orbitalwalsh · 25 Oct 2018 at 09:51

Distracted said:
Formula has 8 + 4.

apologies, ,misread that as having the older z370 and using 9900k .

current z390 seem to be doing well with heat at both software and thermal cam level

Distracted · 25 Oct 2018 at 10:01

orbitalwalsh said:
apologies, ,misread that as having the older z370 and using 9900k .

current z390 seem to be doing well with heat at both software and thermal cam level

Ah that makes sense. I was going to get the z370 series but I survived the wait and went with z390.

I'm glad i did. I love the way it looks.

orbitalwalsh · 25 Oct 2018 at 10:03

Distracted said:
Ah that makes sense. I was going to get the z370 series but I survived the wait and went with z390.
I'm glad i did. I love the way it looks.

just a shame z370 came to be and was a rush by intel . z390 was already on the board to replace z370 but 8 core came as a blessing , though now z390 adds to the 14nm production nightmare

Distracted · 25 Oct 2018 at 10:08

orbitalwalsh said:
just a shame z370 came to be and was a rush by intel . z390 was already on the board to replace z370 but 8 core came as a blessing , though now z390 adds to the 14nm production nightmare

Agreed.

Robert896r1 · 25 Oct 2018 at 11:00

Gene is up for pre order. No thanks. The hero is a smarter buy.

So much for it being in the price range we had talked about @8 Pack

LambChop · 25 Oct 2018 at 11:01

orbitalwalsh said:
Interesting to see how your single 8 pin does vs dual 8/ 8+4 pin since in theory voltage is split more evenly etc

Every board vendor, recommending changing thermal pads , still need to track down Asus pad details but I know they all should be 2 w/km and under (super cheap stuff)

Need to find a good balance, if better pads are put on the h-sinks are gonna get really toasty.

Mr Carrot · 25 Oct 2018 at 12:01

I have a CODE on order but no idea of a delivery date, is there anypoint waiting around or do I just chuck some extra cash in and get the Formula (with no intention of watercooling) or downgrade to the Hero (WIFI)? The reviews don't some to be clear if the formula VRM set up is any different?

Distracted · 25 Oct 2018 at 12:56

Mr Carrot said:
I have a CODE on order but no idea of a delivery date, is there anypoint waiting around or do I just chuck some extra cash in and get the Formula (with no intention of watercooling) or downgrade to the Hero (WIFI)? The reviews don't some to be clear if the formula VRM set up is any different?

The Code and Formula power stages look very similar to me from the photos I have seen. Looking at the PCB pics for the Hero I can see some differences between it and the Code / Formula around the VRM area, but whether they are significant, or even related to the power delivery, I don't know.

Cooling-wise both the Code and Hero have a heatpipe in the VRM heatsink which would just spread the heat to the rest of the metal. I suspect the heatpipe helps with removing heat from hot spots on the VRM/heatsink by spreading the load across the entire block. To actually cool the VRM area you would still need airflow over the heatsink.
The Formula does not have a heatpipe, instead the waterblock is a hybrid design that can be used with or without being in a loop. If it isn't in a loop then you may need airflow over the area to cool it.

How much cooling you would need I don't know, the passive cooling from the VRM heatsink may be enough.

On my Formula XI with an 8700k installed the passive cooling was fine (Since installing the 9900k the VRM has been part of an open loop).

Personally I would pick the Formula or Code based on looks alone over the Hero, but that is because the motherboard will be highly visible in my setup while the PC is in use.

Mr Carrot · 25 Oct 2018 at 13:00

Thanks for that, will wait for some reviews of the code to appear before deciding.

Distracted · 25 Oct 2018 at 13:26

Mr Carrot said:
Thanks for that, will wait for some reviews of the code to appear before deciding.

NP. I don't know how it is in normal operation, but the video below was done with a Z390 Hero iirc. It was able to hit 6ghz on LN2 and was only restricted by the board not being insulated and the lack of a BIOS that allowed for extreme temperatures. The board wasn't properly prepared because he was originally using a z390 Taichi, but that died due to condensation so the Hero BIOS and board was an on the spot thing.

Distracted · 25 Oct 2018 at 13:40

More Hero stuff here

https://www.gamersnexus.net/hwrevie...der-vs-paste-delid-gaming-benchmarks-vs-2700x

And in their live stream which took the 9900k to 5.3 on air.

No VRM issues at all, no active cooling on or directed at the VRM heatsink (waterblock on the CPU on an open test bench).

Presumably, if the Hero can do it, the Code should be able to as well.

Mr Carrot · 25 Oct 2018 at 14:59

Unless all the cool looking plastic makes the board run hotter.....

Distracted · 25 Oct 2018 at 15:01

Mr Carrot said:
Unless all the cool looking plastic makes the board run hotter.....

That's a valid point.

It doesn't on my Formula, and it is all removeable, but I can see why it might.

LambChop · 25 Oct 2018 at 15:56

Robert896r1 said:
Gene is up for pre order. No thanks. The hero is a smarter buy.

So much for it being in the price range we had talked about @8 Pack

You're not going to get any kind of deal from OCUK at the moment. I have mine on order for £259 (hero + wifi) I dont need to have it yesterday so I'm happy to pay the price we should be paying.

Z390- ASUS- Gene PCB breakdown

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