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Zen 5 Chat

Ryzen history.

R23.

1800X
ST: 960
MT: 9314

2700X
ST: 1071 +11%
MT: 9971 +7%

3800X
ST: 1325 +24%
MT: 12874 +29%
3950X
ST: 1371 +28%
MT: 24050 +141%

5800X
ST: 1619 +18%
MT: 15228 +18%
5950X
ST: 1644 +20%
MT: 28577 +19%

The lowest ST increase was +11%
The highest ST was +28%
The lowest MT with the same number of cores was +7%
The highest MT with the same number of cores was +29%

If Zen 4 achieves +15% its not bad, +25% would be their second highest increase.
+35% MT would be their highest for the same number of cores, even higher than the jump from Zen + to Zen 2, which was the best one yet.

Either way, AMD's performance up tick has been far greater than Intel's prior decade.
 
The 12900K scores 1997 ST.

For Zen 4 to match that it would need gain 20% over the 5950X, if people are hoping Zen 4 will match Raptor Lake in ST they are going to be disappointed, i think realistically the best we can hope for is for Zen 4 to match Alder Lake.

No shame in that, the Golden Cove core is 4X the size of the Zen 3 core and uses 4X as much power, for a 20% gain per core, Intel are brute forcing it, anyone can take a crap core and grow it to gigantic proportions to beat a well designed highly efficient core, and 10 years ago that will have worked for them. Today its relevant to Intel's marketing team more than it is to anyone who's buying them.
 
humbug said:
if people are hoping Zen 4 will match Raptor Lake in ST they are going to be disappointed, i think realistically the best we can hope for is for Zen 4 to match Alder Lake.
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But Raptor Lake isn't getting a meaningful ST uplift though, so it's not like there's some unobtainable target.

I'm too tired for maths today, but I'm fairly sure that an 8% IPC increase combined with a boost clock at least 500Mhz higher would offer a pretty chunky ST uplift.
 
LePhuronn said:
But Raptor Lake isn't getting a meaningful ST uplift though, so it's not like there's some unobtainable target.

I'm too tired for maths today, but I'm fairly sure that an 8% IPC increase combined with a boost clock at least 500Mhz higher would offer a pretty chunky ST uplift.
Click to expand...

I don't think Raptor Lake scoring 2300 ST is unrealistic, and i would be surrprised if Zen 4 scores higher than 2000, 2100 would be pretty good but i doubt it, that would make RTL 10 to 15% faster ST, but as i said, that doesn't really matter.
 
Zen 1 and Zen 2 were slower than Intel in gaming, and yet it was very sucessful era that raised AMD to its feet, losing by 10-15% is nothing, especially since AMD is destroying Intel in server market with all that solutions, and for desktop gaming we will have Zen 4 3dcache version that will be at worst similar to RPL, and probably better, especially in heavy cache games.
 
On gaming i would not be surprised to see 20% gains over Zen 3 with Zen 4, which will put it 10% ahead of Alder Lake, i think Zen 3D will still win in cache heavy games, nothing is going to touch Zen 3D in cache heavy games, at least not until Zen 4-3D, but Zen 4 will be a more consistent performer, than Zen 3D.
 
The key will be price to performance. We already have plenty of performance. They will have to be attractively priced in the current climate to sell well.
 
Troezar said:
The key will be price to performance. We already have plenty of performance. They will have to be attractively priced in the current climate to sell well.
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I can see them doing the same they did with Zen 3, high launch pricing, no well priced mid range chips. The high ST performance and pricing of Raptor Lake 13700 might make me want to get that instead. No upgrade path i know, but if it's effectively 10+% ahead of Zen 4 then it already will likely be similar to the next AMD chip in gaming.
 
Perfect_Chaos said:
I can see them doing the same they did with Zen 3, high launch pricing, no well priced mid range chips. The high ST performance and pricing of Raptor Lake 13700 might make me want to get that instead. No upgrade path i know, but if it's effectively 10+% ahead of Zen 4 then it already will likely be similar to the next AMD chip in gaming.
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You may be right, if they do they are pretty blind to the economic conditions. As they are planning to keep AM4 running for a while I can see a price drop there to compete at the lower end. I'd knock off 25% from AM4 and price AM5 where AM4 was.
 
I think the difference going from Zen 3 to Zen 4, won't be as big a jump in performance, as going from Zen 4 to Zen 5. Time will tell but I just get the feeling that Zen 5 is AMDs way of better countering Intels advances. Intel have finally got their head out of their azz and are making progress again. Power hogs yes, but they are advancing quicker now that AMD have given them proper competition.

Remember Intel and their lack of needing to progress, with the 5-10% performance advances, on a quadcore, on multiple platforms, for all those years....now there is real competition.
 
subbytna said:
I think the difference going from Zen 3 to Zen 4, won't be as big a jump in performance, as going from Zen 4 to Zen 5. Time will tell but I just get the feeling that Zen 5 is AMDs way of better countering Intels advances. Intel have finally got their head out of their azz and are making progress again. Power hogs yes, but they are advancing quicker now that AMD have given them proper competition.

Remember Intel and their lack of needing to progress, with the 5-10% performance advances, on a quadcore, on multiple platforms, for all those years....now there is real competition.
Click to expand...
Yes especially in the server world, that's the really lucrative part.
 
subbytna said:
Remember Intel and their lack of needing to progress, with the 5-10% performance advances, on a quadcore, on multiple platforms, for all those years....now there is real competition.
Click to expand...
Amd really advanced though, from the 300 msrp 8 core 1700 to the 300 msrp 6 core 5600, there is a 35% MT performance uplift
Instead of at least keeping the number of cores steady, they decreased them for every price point
 
Bencher said:
Amd really advanced though, from the 300 msrp 8 core 1700 to the 300 msrp 6 core 5600, there is a 35% MT performance uplift
Instead of at least keeping the number of cores steady, they decreased them for every price point
Click to expand...
They've been steadily moving away from being perceived as the budget option. They need to be careful as people's loyalty only goes so far. When they struggled before I bought Sandybridge because it was so much better.
 
Did they mention anything about big/little? I can't find anything, so i'm sure they will stick to the all big cores again and just increase cores, 20+ big cores on mainstream platform should be brutal.
 
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