Are the USA morally superior to the UK?

[Scougar]

Where did I say that? Oh wait again I didn't.
I told you to expect what you pay for. If you can't look at the plans and find out how the house is constructed, you shouldn't be in a postion to buy one.

There is no pulling the wool over anyone's eyes, there is no deception.

Funny how this thread is the top in google search for toxic fumes fans building construction.
Leather the builder was dodgy, it wasn't the wood, but some floor finishing or something else.

SIPs is used in many countries, no fans are required, end off there really isn't anything to debate on that front.

Went back and reread what you put. "The fact you think you aren't getting what you think you're getting shows how twisted your logic is."

So yes.. you're right, you didn't say that. Apologies.. I misread the "aren't" as are lol

On the subject of the glued floor joists: http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/windsor/story/2012/04/13/wdr-firefighters-floor-joists.html

So obviously I'm not talking crap about the joists.. that was my first search and that pulled up a reference to fumes (obviously from burning lol).

Here's a few more VERY quick searches: http://articles.chicagotribune.com/...6_1_volatile-organic-compounds-vocs-carpeting
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/1207248.stm

http://life.nationalpost.com/2012/08/27/that-new-home-smell-may-be-harmful-gases/ (Notice the reference to Formaldehyde in this one).

It isn't all good is what I'm saying. Sure they save you money etc.. but man made materials and chemicals can be nasty.. just like having a house that harbours Radon can be nasty.

OP's reference to Morals aside... those houses look damn nice... lol

 

[Theophany]

I think it's safe to say guns don't kill people, minorities kill people.

 

[PistolPete]

Vermont: 1.1 to 1.9 for last 7 years

Learn to read and get back to me.... I'll give you a clue - what happened in 2008??


And if you compare like for like - the last 17 years are 1.1 - 2.9.
http://www.disastercenter.com/crime/vtcrime.htm

Vermont as an average over those 17 years - 1.89
UK as an average over those 17 year - 1.23

As as I keep saying, comparing Vermont to the entire UK.... I could rebut that and say why not compare it with my town??
My town has the same relative numbers of the UK population as Vermont has of the US....
1 murder last year, 0 in 2010, 0 in 2009, 0 in 2008, 0 in 2007...

 

[kwerk]

Went back and reread what you put. "The fact you think you aren't getting what you think you're getting shows how twisted your logic is."

So yes.. you're right, you didn't say that. Apologies.. I misread the "aren't" as are lol

On the subject of the glued floor joists: http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/windsor/story/2012/04/13/wdr-firefighters-floor-joists.html

So obviously I'm not talking crap about the joists.. that was my first search and that pulled up a reference to fumes (obviously from burning lol).

Here's a few more VERY quick searches: http://articles.chicagotribune.com/...6_1_volatile-organic-compounds-vocs-carpeting
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/1207248.stm

http://life.nationalpost.com/2012/08/27/that-new-home-smell-may-be-harmful-gases/ (Notice the reference to Formaldehyde in this one).

It isn't all good is what I'm saying. Sure they save you money etc.. but man made materials and chemicals can be nasty.. just like having a house that harbours Radon can be nasty.

OP's reference to Morals aside... those houses look damn nice... lol

"Carpets, flooring and paint" which houses don't have flooring and paint? That's not exclusive to new build houses, plenty of old houses get new carpet and paint.

As for the tightness of new homes, in Canada it's code to have an air exchanger which brings in fresh air from outside and heats it up and mixes it with the forced air heating system. That's miles more energy efficient than having an old draughty house and gets rid of any vapour build up.

All it would take to fix the fire problem would be to make a building code that requires 5/8" fire-rated drywall to be applied for ceilings and in basements if engineered joists are used. It's already required for garages with living space above. The fire-rated stuff is spec'ed to withstand twice as long as the normal 1/2 drywall normally used, which is rated for 30 mins. So you would have up to 30 mins extra protection right there from just doing that.

Also there's no actual proof radon is harmful. The risk assessment comes from assumptions taken from data from uranium miners and Hiroshima victims using the linear non threshold model. There is quite a lot of evidence that radiation exposure doesn't work in a linear dose-response, in which case low doses of radon could actually be GOOD for you. In fact counties with the highest radon levels have the lowest lung cancer rates.

Same thing was been said about airline pilots and flight attendants, they get much more ionizing radiation exposure than normal people but their cancer rates are lower.

 

[Will21st]

Learn to read and get back to me.... I'll give you a clue - what happened in 2008??


And if you compare like for like - the last 17 years are 1.1 - 2.9.
http://www.disastercenter.com/crime/vtcrime.htm

Vermont as an average over those 17 years - 1.89
UK as an average over those 17 year - 1.23

As as I keep saying, comparing Vermont to the entire UK.... I could rebut that and say why not compare it with my town??
My town has the same relative numbers of the UK population as Vermont has of the US....
1 murder last year, 0 in 2010, 0 in 2009, 0 in 2008, 0 in 2007...

Not to forget the high murder rate in the US is mostly down to the war on drugs. Basically if you're white and have nothing to do with drugs your chance to get killed is probably about as high in the US as over here.

 

[kwerk]

btw, the fire-rated drywall is a good sound deadener too, so if you spent the little extra during construction to put it on all your walls and filled your interior walls with fiberglass batts... even better in a staggered configuration to stop sound transmitting through the studs, i bet it would be quieter than brick walls.

 

[kwerk]

also btw... they use that drywall board in most fire-proof safes as the fire protection (multiple layers of it). It works good.

I would guess most of the fires where it was a problem started in basements with unfinished ceilings where the flames had direct access to the engineered joists.

 

[kwerk]

Learn to read and get back to me.... I'll give you a clue - what happened in 2008??


And if you compare like for like - the last 17 years are 1.1 - 2.9.
http://www.disastercenter.com/crime/vtcrime.htm

Vermont as an average over those 17 years - 1.89
UK as an average over those 17 year - 1.23

As as I keep saying, comparing Vermont to the entire UK.... I could rebut that and say why not compare it with my town??
My town has the same relative numbers of the UK population as Vermont has of the US....
1 murder last year, 0 in 2010, 0 in 2009, 0 in 2008, 0 in 2007...

0.66 difference... I think I'll still take my chances with getting murdered over here.

 

[Sankari]

DC has stricter gun control than the UK!

Does it? Please prove this. By the way, gun ownership is an inviolable constitutional right in the USA (as opposed to the UK, where it is not a right at all). This immediately invalidates your comparison. Oh, and LOL at comparing a capital city to an entire nation.

Look at Venezuela and Brasil; both nations have strict gun control, yet both countries have BIG problems when it comes to homicide.

That is because both countries are notoriously corrupt, and the laws are poorly enforced (if at all).

Gun control legislation is a feel-good, vote-buying measure, at best.

Gun control legislation - when enforced - helps to reduce gun-related crime.

The main problem with the USA is that gun ownership is enshrined as a civil right in the Constitution. This means all citizens are entitled to own a gun by default, which complicates attempts to restrict gun ownership.

 

[Senture]

Chicago has strict gun control.


NYC has strict gun control.


DC has stricter gun control than the UK!

The only jurisdiction on your list which has "lax" gun control measures (indeed, no State level firearms legislation) is Vermont; and that's the lowest homicide rate in your list!

In the States you can pop into Walmart and buy a gun + ammo. Last I checked, Tesco don't stock firearms.

I say this from experience. I lived over there and SAW people including who I was living with buy guns from Walmart.

 

[PistolPete]

0.66 difference, I think I'll still take my chances with getting murdered over here.

That's it, take the easier option!

I prefer the safer option - 1 murder in my town in the last 15 years I can find data for, and the alleged murderers and the victim were visitors - didn't even live in this country - that an average of 0.18 over the last 15 years, average of 0 if you only count up to 2010.

 

[BlairH]

In the States you can pop into Walmart and buy a gun + ammo. Last I checked, Tesco don't stock firearms.

So? Should there be some kind of arbritary rule stating that if you sell firearms, you can't sell anything else? The Wal Marts that stock guns (and it's not ALL Wal Marts by the way) have FFL licenses, and are regulated in exactly the same way by the BATFE as "regular" firearms dealers who sell firearms by way of business.

I say this from experience. I lived over there and SAW people including who I was living with buy guns from Walmart.

Again, so? Presumably they weren't ALL murderers.

 

[BlairH]

Does it? Please prove this.

Until very recently, (DC v Heller case) DC had a 30 year ban on handguns. There are very tight restrictions on other firearms, and very tight restrictions on moving firearms from one location to another.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_laws_in_the_District_of_Columbia

http://www.washingtontimes.com/blog/guns/2012/mar/13/miller-dcs-gun-law-deception/

http://www.washingtontimes.com/blog/guns/2012/aug/15/miller-q-dcs-gun-laws/

By the way, gun ownership is an inviolable constitutional right in the USA (as opposed to the UK, where it is not a right at all).

In my view as a natural law proponent an inaliable right either simply "is" or "isn't". An inaliable right, is -by defenition- not subject to geography. Sadly, if we look at some parts of the US (DC, Chicago, etc) gun ownership isn't treated by the local or state government as being inaliable, with many infringements of the basic right -as enshrined in the constitution- being implimented. There is no consistent policy on gun control across the US.

This immediately invalidates your comparison. Oh, and LOL at comparing a capital city to an entire nation.

No comparison is being made on my part. I agree, it's not a fair comparison, but if you look back, it was not I who compared DC crime rates against that of the UK; but rather, one of your fellow gun control advocates.

 

[LordSplodge]

It's certainly not green

Of course some modern materials are more environmentally friendly but let's consider older brick.

The 18th Century brick in our house was made down the road at the, sadly no longer there, brick factory. The cast and wrought iron for the external and internal works is from the iron foundry just down the road (alas gone as well). The stone for the kitchen fireplace came from a quarry in Derbyshire.

Only the slate, from Wales, doesn't come from within a few miles. All houses in the immediate area of the two former mills were made the same. Here two centuries later they stand. That's a fairly low environmental impact compared to modern build where materials can come from all over the world.

Those Victorian engineers and builders who built the two local Mills (one still standing) and our Master Forman's House for the mill would take one look at your average modern house - not the fancy ones you see on TV program's like Grand Designs - and dismiss it as poorly built and poorly designed.

 

[Sankari]

Until very recently, (DC v Heller case) DC had a 30 year ban on handguns.

Relevance? If anything you've just shown that DC's gun laws are less strict than the UK's.

In my view as a natural law proponent an inaliable right either simply "is" or "isn't". An inaliable right, is -by defenition- not subject to geography.

OK, thanks for that little soundbite. I'll let you know if it's ever needed.

Sadly, if we look at some parts of the US (DC, Chicago, etc) gun ownership isn't treated by the local or state government as being inaliable, with many infringements of the basic right -as enshrined in the constitution- being implimented.

Restricting certain types of firearms does not infringe on the right to bear arms.

There is no consistent policy on gun control across the US.

Welcome to a little thing called federalism. That's how the US political system works. It's the same in Australia. The more power you give to individual states, the more legislative inconsistency you end up with. It's the price you pay for 'small government.'

No comparison is being made on my part. I agree, it's not a fair comparison, but if you look back, it was not I who compared DC crime rates against that of the UK; but rather, one of your fellow gun control advocates.

Thanks for the correction. Having said that, I don't care who made the comparison; it's ****** stupid.

 

[The Dread Pirate]

For a Start the Right to bear arms takes us back ooo 150-200 years so no just no!

 

[platypus]

I can't really fault the US overall. They do have higher overall crime rates and bigger prison populations and worse health i believe, overall, but they have created city after city of amazing engineering and technology. They are world leaders in everything, from art to science to military equipment. Maybe we should have a look and learn. I think in Britain we have a tendency to downgrade the US, probably as we see them as stealing British land, but in reality they have become the dominant force in world Science, engineering, human rights, justice etc etc...

What on earth are you talking about?

 

[wildman]

lol kwerk..........

no........wait..... what............... .... are you kwerk in disguise OP ?

 

[platypus]

For a Start the Right to bear arms takes us back ooo 150-200 years so no just no!

Love this pic .

 

[minister]

Ha ha ha ha ha

No universal healthcare
overpriced education system
No welfare system at all.
A lot of crime.
Massive wealth inequality.

Sounds like a great place to live.

Well i'm at Stanford and all I can say is that the education is not that expensive, and that the quality of education is much better than in the UK.