Didn't teach you leadership skills or motivation skills to those in your group did it
Are the USA morally superior to the UK?
- Thread starter jsmoke
- Start date
Didn't teach you leadership skills or motivation skills to those in your group did it
More to the point, the full passage of the Second Amendment reads: "A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed."
It's as clear as mud - is the state militia relevant? What about being well regulated? The British aren't coming to invade, so what is the need to continue to possess firearms? Self-defence is not mentioned by the amendment at all, so how can it be a constitutionally compliant argument?
I just don't understand the need for gun ownership in the US. More to the point, I've never heard a really coherent argument that has ever made me think "gee, I've never thought about it that way, I guess that is a good point."
I'm not saying that there isn't a good reason for gun ownership, but for the life of me I cannot figure out what it is, nor has it ever been pointed out to me.
Didn't teach you leadership skills or motivation skills to those in your group did it
It did, it showed me the value of work and reward, and the choice of making a decision that benefits the group. It showed those that didnt work get penalised, which later on in life would motivate them too work.
Last edited:
Look at the contemporary state constitutions, they are much clearer.
http://www2.law.ucla.edu/volokh/beararms/statecon.htm
for example:
Arizona: The right of the individual citizen to bear arms in defense of himself or the State shall not be impaired, but nothing in this section shall be construed as authorizing individuals or corporations to organize, maintain, or employ an armed body of men.
Colorado: The right of no person to keep and bear arms in defense of his home, person and property, or in aid of the civil power when thereto legally summoned, shall be called in question; but nothing herein contained shall be construed to justify the practice of carrying concealed weapons.
Ok, so what's the need as per the second part of my post?
self-defense and as insurance for the states to rebel against a tyrannical government if they need to.
Will McAvoy said:
it may be a work of fiction but it's spot on. If I were there when he said it I'd have probably stood up and applauded.
Many people in the US think they're morally superior, but 60% of people living there have never left the USA. 15% have never even left the state they live in. if your sole opinion of the rest of the world is provided by TV news that's so opinionated or so far to the left or right they'd be in outer space if the world was flat, then, IMO, you can't be superior in any way, never mind morally.
Last edited:
and the British don't think the same?
Its from an american tv show on hbo.
If you live in america theres no need to ever leave it has everything.
Now the US may well be behind cf. Europe in these area but you have massively generalized or simply lied.
There is no NS in the US but there are social health measures in place like Medicare and Medicaid, and now with Obama care passed things will resemble the future NHS and othereuropean countries. You also have to realise that a vast majority of Americans have their health care paid for through their employer, spending less money than the average person in the UK does on NI. Furthermore most people have access to a far higher standard of health care than the average UK citizen. The issues lie with long term unemployed and the very poor, something which is slowly changing.
The education system is not overpriced. State universities of world class performance are similar price to England, even many private institutions are v
affordable with a higher offering of bursaries and grants. Yes, some private schools at full cost set you back 50-60k a year. It is a free market, these universities have their operating costs and compete with price, which is why the top schools are all in the same ballpark. Students go there and the cost is considered a sound investment by many. Remember, if you do a degree in CS, math, physics, engineering, or managements from a top school You can walk into a $100k graduation job.
No welfare system at all, that is completely false, the welfare system is just more restricted than the UK and there is also a reliance on insuring yourself for things like unemployment. The welfare state of the UK is nothing to be proud of.
A t of crime, that is a massive generalization. most US cities are as safe or safer than similar sized UK cities. Glasgow is hardly a pinnacle of low crime etc. in most neighbourhoods people leave their houses and cars unlocked. How many people in the UK don't even lock their car?
Massive wealth inequality. Well The US does have a rather large population of poorly families but a large part of the delta is due to the fact that the US has produced so many successful millionaires through successful business. It is not the fault of the Us is that they pioneered the IT industry and produced the googles and microsofts of the world, the Intels and IBMs, they produced the banking and financial powerhouses. Successful big business leads to high salaried professionals.
some places look bad when you look at it as a socialist - if you think people whom work should pay for people whom dont.
then ya - in a place like the US
you pay for your own healthcare
you pay to eat
you pay to go to school
as far as crime - I dont have the statistics in front of me but I would probably think that crime in the uk is greater - but violent crime is greater in the US.
Guns and racial prejudice
Soldato
Subjective, I've noticed just as much snobbery from Americans as British people.
Saying "have a nice day" with no real care about if you live or die isn't polite (in my opinion).
Yes, but it's worse in America.
Are you serious?.
I don't even agree they are positive traits.
Patriotism often = mindless subservience.
Pride often = arrogance.
Sometimes it's justified, sometimes it isn't - but pretending everything is fine isn't a quality to be revered either.
Not all cultures are equal.
We are objectively better at caring for the vulnerable, we have a healthcare system which is objectively better for a majority of the population, we objectively have a significantly lower crime rate, we objectively have less wealth inequality.
These facts are not up for dispute.
Give me the UK over the USA any-day.
Soldato
I think you underestimate UK greatly in both the above subjects
America often strikes me as being morally bankrupt in a number of areas. A failing experiment.
I see it apparently giving up on big chunks of it's population, I see it drifting towards it's own extra stupid home made brand of fascism, I see it justifying ever worsening things with the GWOT (most recent thing I read was a legal justification for domestic drone strikes from inside Barry's government) and veering further and further from a lot of it's supposed ideals. I really wonder what people think is so great about it.
For about five minutes I think they had the right idea. Big prosperous middle class. Widespread opportunity. Now? Not really.
I see it apparently giving up on big chunks of it's population, I see it drifting towards it's own extra stupid home made brand of fascism, I see it justifying ever worsening things with the GWOT (most recent thing I read was a legal justification for domestic drone strikes from inside Barry's government) and veering further and further from a lot of it's supposed ideals. I really wonder what people think is so great about it.
For about five minutes I think they had the right idea. Big prosperous middle class. Widespread opportunity. Now? Not really.
Last edited:
Based on what some of the more left-leaning members of these forums post, the UK's leadership is no less guilty of giving up on certain chunks of the populace. Meanwhile, the EDL and BNP are no less bigoted and small minded than their American counterparts. Oh, and let's not forget we never actually turned around and told America we'd have no part in this GWOT.
So, why is America a failed experiment again? And if they are, what does that make us - the once great superpower that ruled with an iron fist and has become a bit of a joke on the global stage, reminiscing over the days where the sun never set? Do me a favour.
Soldato
You seem to be mixing up the actions of the government over the will of the population.
For example, the war on Iraq had support in the USA - it didn't here.
Our political class are almost as bad, but only almost - as at least we are beyond debating evolution & secularism (two massive points of political contention over there).
The USA has been hijacked by a select number of institutions which you can see clearly by the policies.
1. The church.
2. The finance industry.
3. The military.
4. The oil Industry.
5. The gun lobby.
Having a nation structured to bend to the will of fringe interests groups will always end up backwards (the same applies in much of the middle east but with the church playing a bigger role).
Obviously it's nothing to do with the actual religions this, just the institutions.
Last edited:
Don
No.
I'm mistaking nothing. I don't recall Labour being ejected from office in 2005 following the invasion of Iraq? Given that there was no referendum on the war, the chance for the people to exercise their will was in the polling booths.
There was support and protest in both the US and UK, so I'm not really sure how you can insinuate that we're somehow absolved of any guilt in this. Nevermind the fact that opposition for the war for some reason seemed to be less prevalent following July 2005.
It's amazing how quiet many of the anti-war lobby go when it's their community getting bombed to ****. But I digress.
Did you miss the ongoing arguments over gay marriage, female bishops, etc? What about the taxpayer funded bailout of Northern Rock and RBS? What about the fact that the financial institutions are continuing to take the mick?
Our problems may not be exactly the same, but it's the same crap, just in a different dialect.
Last edited:
Soldato
You seemed to have selectively ignored the evolution & secularism points.
I'm not saying the UK is great by any standard, but morally we do have the higher ground (for a start we don't let poor people die of preventable illnesses because they don't have private healthcare - which to be honest is a pretty strong moral failing).
Again, governments/institutions not the population - most the UK don't really care about gay marriage or female bishops one way or the other (unlike the US).
Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying the UK is amazing or anything - we are behind say Norway on almost every issue - but I'm not going to pretend we are equal morally to the USA either (when in reality we are not).
Tl:dr version - we have the same problems yes - but to different degrees.
The devil is in the detail.