** Summer Transfer Window 2011/12 Season Rumours/Signings **

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Well from what I've read on the Telegraph website Blackburn understand it, it's the owners who are being silly and trying to pretend the release fee doesn't exist or doesn't actually mean what it means. I almost get the idea that Venky's think we have to pay £16m to Blackburn just to talk to him and then we give them £25m to actually sign him.

Having seen the debacle of someone trying to explain relegation to them on the last day of the season i think they should really stick to chickens. No contracts required and the only transfer is from hen house to supermarket.

 

[Peg]

You'd then have to question why United would need to increase their bid, if the deal is all hunky dory and he only wants to go there.

Probably because Blackburn want more money. Blackburn have to be happy as well as Jones for the deal to go ahead.

 

[Tom84]

Having seen the debacle of someone trying to explain relegation to them on the last day of the season i think they should really stick to chickens. No contracts required and the only transfer is from hen house to supermarket.

 

[HangTime]

What I found bizarre about Valencia is that against Chelsea, he was phenomenal, I have literally never seen Ashley Cole be pegged back so much. Yet against Barcelona, he did literally nothing except persistent fouling (how he escaped a yellow in the first half I'll never know) and overhit a cross the one time he got in a decent position with the ball.

edit: FFS, I'm turning into Jamie Redknapp.

 

[BaZ87]

While I don't believe this "£16m to talk to the player" stuff and while it's very possible that Blackburns owners are clueless, none of us know exactly what the clause in Jones's contract is. This isn't football manager where a clause is black and white; they're all individual to the player. Eg. a player could have a clause allowing him to leave for the highest offer over a certain amount. It all depends on the wording.

And if Blackburn end up getting Utd to pay more than the ~£16m, would their owners have been clueless to kick up a fuss?

 

[placeholder]

Ok, I'm not going to get into a massive debate over who is the greatest and why. It's clear I disagree with your statement that he was the best though (equally I'm not saying he's not a great manager, just not the greatest).

And you appear to be backtracking after initially saying Dalglish would be out of a job by Christmas.

Yeah im back-tracking a little!

I think he will ultimately fail but its maybe a bit harsh to say out by Xmas.

"The greatest" is very subjective and no-one from Liverpool and United will ever agree so its probably pointless debating it. Its probably fair to say that Liverpool have had some incredible managers in their history though. I think Sir Alex can stand toe to toe with any of them. I honestly dont believe Kenny Dalglish can, for me he is all smoke and mirrors. I think he is a tremendous human being (did a lot of charity work where i live) and his conduct during the Hillsborough aftermath was amazing but in purely manegerial terms i dont rate him at all.

 

[Tom84]

What I found bizarre about Valencia is that against Chelsea, he was phenomenal, I have literally never seen Ashley Cole be pegged back so much. Yet against Barcelona, he did literally nothing except persistent fouling (how he escaped a yellow in the first half I'll never know) and overhit a cross the one time he got in a decent position with the ball.

Yeah it wasn't the best time for him to have an off day, prior to the game the team Fergie put out was exactly the one I wanted to see, Hernandez causing them problems in behind, Valencia getting at Abidal causing him no end of problems, Rooney on Biscuits not letting him start attacks by getting the ball to Xavi and Iniesta...

Unfortunately though the tactics ended up being wrong, we should have gone 5 in midfield with Rooney up top on his own, maybe then Valencia wouldn't have had the need to keep coming inside to deal with Messi. In hindsight the loss against Arsenal a few weeks before should have highlighted that the theory wouldn't work and Hernandez would be hopelessly isolated up front with Rooney not really being attuned to doing a job on an opposition player

I wouldn't care less if it goes against what the neutrals want to see, next time we play Barca we need to go 5 in midfield with Fletcher in there and play as much anti football as we can and just hit them on them on the break and hope for a lot of luck in-between.

 

[HangTime]

Does sound a bit strange, normally you'd expect a minimum release clause to just be that the club can't prevent a player from signing for a club that offers over £x. If it was a case of the club being able to reject any of those bigs in favour of a higher one, you'd have to have a lot of smallprint around timescales etc. i.e. bit for £16.5m comes in, within what period can other clubs put higher bids in? According to the paper Arsenal have tried to Gazump MU as well.

Ultimately it seems the player wants to join MU, I can't see him suddenly changing his mind and joining another club.

 

[atpbx]

well, if nearly everyone on here is convinced that Nani is the better player (although he has way more experience at Utd than AV) , and yet the one player who does more for the team year in and year out is convinced that its infact AV that is better for the team.......I would go along with the latter (as he actually has to play with him)

Utd as a team do better with AV in the team nearly every single time

Even Nani's gaols /assist record isnt that impressive when one considers how many chances he takes for every single one of either (a good guess would be one in ten if Nani is lucky)

????

The very fact that he makes the chances means he is better than Valencia REGARDLESS of many tries he has it.

The fact is, Nani is more productive, scores more, creates more, is quicker and is virtually single handedly responsible for the last title win, he had a DIRECT influence on 27 united goals last season, thats more than a THIRD of all Uniteds league goals were down to him.

For a crap player, thats pretty good going.

 

[BaZ87]

I honestly dont believe Kenny Dalglish can, for me he is all smoke and mirrors. I think he is a tremendous human being (did a lot of charity work where i live) and his conduct during the Hillsborough aftermath was amazing but in purely manegerial terms i dont rate him at all.

Of course he can't stand toe to toe with the likes of Paisley based on managerial achivements, that doesn't mean he's a bad manager.

You're entitled to your opinion, I disagree. The man won league titles with 2 1st Division/Premier League clubs, was 2 freak results away from winning 3 back to back doubles and built what many say was Liverpool and England's greatest ever side.

 

[MarcLister]

Having seen the debacle of someone trying to explain relegation to them on the last day of the season i think they should really stick to chickens. No contracts required and the only transfer is from hen house to supermarket.

Oh lordy lord! Please tell me you are joking? Is there a video or some article about this?

 

[atpbx]

What I found bizarre about Valencia is that against Chelsea, he was phenomenal, I have literally never seen Ashley Cole be pegged back so much. Yet against Barcelona, he did literally nothing except persistent fouling (how he escaped a yellow in the first half I'll never know) and overhit a cross the one time he got in a decent position with the ball.

edit: FFS, I'm turning into Jamie Redknapp.

David Bently scored a hat trick against United once.

And Alfonso Alves scored 2 in a game against them once as well.

Wolves beat United last season, and Burnley the season before.

It means nothing.

 

[placeholder]

What I found bizarre about Valencia is that against Chelsea, he was phenomenal, I have literally never seen Ashley Cole be pegged back so much. Yet against Barcelona, he did literally nothing except persistent fouling (how he escaped a yellow in the first half I'll never know) and overhit a cross the one time he got in a decent position with the ball.

edit: FFS, I'm turning into Jamie Redknapp.

The whole team screwed up against Barca. Sometimes you have to take defeat on the chin and this was one of those times.

I would never use that game as a benchmark for judging a player.

I agree with Tom, to beat Barca you have to play like ****s. Anti football or whatever you want to call it. Jose didnt really worry about anti-football when he lifted the cup last year. It wont be popular but it will work. When we actually knocked them out of the CL it was based on defending.

 

[IceBus]

And Alfonso Alves scored 2 in a game against them once as well.

After we'd gone one nil up from a Ronaldo free kick, away at Middlesborough. His first two goals for Borough as well. One of the weirdest away experiences of my life, sad in amongst a bunch of celebrating Middlesborough fans.

 

[placeholder]

Of course he can't stand toe to toe with the likes of Paisley based on managerial achivements, that doesn't mean he's a bad manager.

You're entitled to your opinion, I disagree. The man won league titles with 2 1st Division/Premier League clubs, was 2 freak results away from winning 3 back to back doubles and built what many say was Liverpool and England's greatest ever side.

He was also one kung-fu kick away from being a hopeless failure at Blackburn. He spent unheard of amounts of cash, stole the title and left them in the lurch with no foundations whatsoever. I ALWAYS believe the best team wins the league regardless but the one exception in my lifetime is 1995.

He also left Liverpool in need of major surgery and the less said about Newcastle and Celtic the better.

 

[BaZ87]

He was also one kung-fu kick away from being a hopeless failure at Blackburn. He spent unheard of amounts of cash, stole the title and left them in the lurch with no foundations whatsoever. I ALWAYS believe the best team wins the league regardless but the one exception in my lifetime is 1995.

He also left Liverpool in need of major surgery and the less said about Newcastle and Celtic the better.

He spent big money at Blackburn but the total cost of their squad wasn't dissimilar to Utd's. Utd took longer to build their squad but the end result was just as costly. He left them with the title winning side too - a side that was sold off for massive money

I think Souness proved and admitted that liverpool didn't need major surgery and that was Souness's biggest failure and set the club back massively. As for Newcastle - yea, I'm sure they don't like thinking back to the days they were finishing 2nd in the league and in FA Cup finals

And didn't he only step in on a temporary basis at Celtic after Barnes was sacked?

Anyway, we've had this debate before iinm. We'll just have to wait and see how he does.

 

[placeholder]

He spent big money at Blackburn but the total cost of their squad wasn't dissimilar to Utd's. Utd took longer to build their squad but the end result was just as costly. He left them with the title winning side too - a side that was sold off for massive money

I think Souness proved and admitted that liverpool didn't need major surgery and that was Souness's biggest failure and set the club back massively. As for Newcastle - yea, I'm sure they don't like thinking back to the days they were finishing 2nd in the league and in FA Cup finals

And didn't he only step in on a temporary basis at Celtic after Barnes was sacked?

Anyway, we've had this debate before iinm. We'll just have to wait and see how he does.

To compare Blackburn to United is laughable. Yes, the squads may have cost similar amounts at the time but 15 years later who are still at the top? There were players at United then who are still there. Where is Batty, Warhurst, Wilcox, Ripley, Kenna now? He bought a team to win one title and then got out quick.

The money spent at Blackburn should have resulted in more than one title and relegation.

Yes, Newcastle fans will dream of the days when 2nd was acceptable but this isnt the point either. At the time "King Kenny" was there challenging was expected, today it isnt. The budgets and players have changed accordingly.

I dont blame him for Celtic at all but he was part of it and it forms part of a hellish CV.

He did a great job at Liverpool last season and deserves all the credit in the world for it but i dont think he is the man to take the club forward.

 

[Tombstone]

He did a great job at Liverpool last season and deserves all the credit in the world for it but i dont think he is the man to take the club forward.

Only time will tell on that. Technically he has already taken the club forward, its not so much a question of whether he is the man to take them forward (given that he already has), more a question of how far forward. Given that some people on this forum predicted he would relegate liverpool (got to love forum managers who always know better than people who do it for a living ), he's done remarkably well so far.

I've no idea what will happen, but I do know that he was the person who formed the deadly SAS and who brought some truly great players to Liverpool last time around. We'll pay over the odds these days, we have to, given that we are such a poor alternative to the other big teams (or so people are repeatedly telling me). Because we are so awful, we can do nothing but pay big and get some scraps while the far superior teams can get the cream at nicer prices. All we can do, to paraphrase Kenny, is get on with things and see where the points have us sitting at the end of the season.

Ferguson said that he thought Kenny could turn Liverpool into challengers, and if Ferguson is indeed the greatest british manager ever then surely we have to agree that his assessment of things is going to be more realistic than anyone elses. Either way, I enjoyed the manner of our play a lot more in the 2nd half of last season than I have done for a few years.

 

[BaZ87]

To compare Blackburn to United is laughable. Yes, the squads may have cost similar amounts at the time but 15 years later who are still at the top? There were players at United then who are still there. Where is Batty, Warhurst, Wilcox, Ripley, Kenna now? He bought a team to win one title and then got out quick.

The money spent at Blackburn should have resulted in more than one title and relegation..

He left the Blackburn managers job straight after winning the title. What happened after that he had no effect on. He left a title winning squad; if the squad wasn't very good then he must have been a miracle worker to win the league with it. To put Blackburn's failings after winning the title down to Dalglish is laughable.

My point about the money was that he may have spent a fortune but the squad he beat Utd to the league with wasn't dissimilar to the cost of Utd's squad.

Yes, Newcastle fans will dream of the days when 2nd was acceptable but this isnt the point either. At the time "King Kenny" was there challenging was expected, today it isnt. The budgets and players have changed accordingly.

So what exactly is your point? Dalglish took Newcastle to 2nd in the league and a FA Cup final, unless of course Newcastle were winning titles every year before he took over how can that be a failure?

I dont blame him for Celtic at all but he was part of it and it forms part of a hellish CV.

He did a great job at Liverpool last season and deserves all the credit in the world for it but i dont think he is the man to take the club forward.

Hellish CV?

placeholder, it's difficult taking you seriously now so we'll end it here.

 

[placeholder]

placeholder, it's difficult taking you seriously now so we'll end it here.

You can take it as seriously as you want to.

He became manager of Liverpool when the bootroom was in full effect. He kept a team ticking over that was already at the top.

He left them when they needed surgery.

He spent a fortune at Blackburn and won one title - ok, you can call that great if you want but for the money spent you would surely hope for more than one trophy and then relegation?

Why did he leave? Liverpool can be explained by Hillsborough and the toll that took but Blackburn? Not so much.

Newcastle did not go well.

Celtic did not go well.

I accept that if he kicks on with Liverpool then he will justify himself. However if you were taking on a club the ideal scenario is being a hero of a player returning and the club being under new ownership who want to spend money. Add in the fact that the fans hated the previous manager and the team were struggling and its easy to be a success (relatively speaking)