Prison Life

[TW]Fox;20152776 said:
You do not need a television license to own a television and a Playstation. The fact I had difficulty in giving away a 32" television does indeed mean everyone can afford one - because everyone can afford a free to a good home television. Because it costs nothing but the electricity to run it and the £10 Ebay playstation you connect to it.

Nonsense, it simply means that the people who saw the advertisement didn't want it.

Some people cannot afford £10 to waste on a console that they couldn't afford the games for anyway.

There are people in Britain who cannot afford much beyond the basic necessities such as food, clothing and housing.
 
[TW]Fox;20152799 said:
For people in this level of poverty even putting food on the table is a challenge - is it therefore fair to say we shouldnt feed prisoners because some people not in prison cannot afford food?

Thats the point being disputed here - our point is that its ridiculous to state that a prisioner shouldnt have a television as if its some sort of luxury good - because it just isn't these days. It's a cheap disposable item.
It's bedside entertainment for them though; I think this is what most people object to.

Spending a day sat on my backside playing metal gear solid doesn't really sound like punishment or rehabilitation.
 
There are people in Britain who cannot afford much beyond the basic necessities such as food, clothing and housing.

Genuine question, who are these people?

Benefits are available if you're not working (Not much but housing + jobseekers is enough?) and minimum wage is enough to provide the basics if you are working.
 
uh oh. a scumbag criminal is posting.....

might as well tell my experience as nobody knows me here..... i spent 5 weeks on remand in gloucester prison last year and for me it really was a doddle. i think gloucester is fairly soft i didn't see a single violent incident of any kind. the thing that surprised me most was how quiet it was at night. sometimes you'd get a few jokers singing but nothing worse than that. at first i was on B wing where it was mostly people around my age and older (i'm 35). then after a few weeks i got moved to A wing and everyone said oh it's much worse cause it's full of kids but it really wasn't. a few had stereos in their cells blaring crappy rnb during the day but nothing to be bothered about.

it's a category B prison i think and most people there are on short term sentences. most are in for burglary, shoplifting, theft. most people saw it as a break from their alcohol/drug abuse on the outside. i really didn't see any drugs on the inside although i'm sure it does go on. but my main point is that for the drinkers especially, it's a chance for their bodies to recover the abuse their internal organs take on the outside. many said they would be dead if it wasn't for their time in prison spent away from the drink. they see it as a time to recover and fatten themselves up again. food is the last thing they'll be spending money on when outside. yes there is a large choice of at least 5-6 items for lunch and tea but it's all crap. it's basically stodge that fills you up. you won't ever go hungry but don't expect anything to taste good either. if you have something like stew, i'm sure catfood has better quality meat in it (not that i've verified this but suffice to say it was not nice :p). apparently the budget for food is roughly £2.50 per prisoner per day. that's for 2 meals served at the canteen (you return to your cell with the tray and eat it there) plus a breakfast pack. what struck me as really odd was how everyone had their own plastic cutlery and plates (i assume for safety reasons). but every cell has a kettle. i wouldn't fancy sharing with some nutter. imagine scolding water being poured on you. :eek:

rehabilitation was pretty much a joke there. because it was mainly a prison for short term stays they didn't have much of budget for education and this was a cause of frustration for some people i spoke to. they could do basic maths/english certificates worth less than a GCSE but couldn't do anything more than that. i was only on remand so i didn't have to work but all prisoners are expected to work after they are sentenced. you can earn upto 15 quid a week max. all the jobs were basically involved in the running of the place: canteen, cleaning, outside cleaning. on top of that wage you can get money sent in from the outside. depending on what level of privilege you're at (for good behaviour) will determine how much you can spend each week. at the very most you can spend roughly 50 quid. every friday is canteen day and this is basically a corner shop inside jail. except you don't browse. you get a list and you tick off all the items you want and then you pick them up. it ranges from sweets, condiments, crisps, tobacco, shavers, personal hygiene products. you can have standard issue prison toothpaste and shampoo for free if you want but some people prefer to buy colgate and decent shower gel. this was quite a luxury i didn't know about until i saw it with my own eyes. there were no game consoles that i saw. every cell has a 14in TV with limited freeview channels. having film4 was good as there was no limit to how late you could keep your tv on. you lose the tv for a week if you misbehave but as you share a cell with someone else, it's generally not a good idea to make them lose it as well. :o there was a short-list of about 3 different stereos people could buy - the most expensive being around £80 from argos. they had catalogue pages on the wall.

as well as the work and "education" classes there are 3-4 1.5 hour sessions of association a week depending on the rota. this where you to get to mingle with all the other de-generates and use the phones outside in the hall. credit could be purchased from your balance. also, there is the gym which i think is a terrible idea. why make crooks bigger, stronger and faster. :D

i think when sentenced you could have 4 visits a month plus you get 2 stamped enevlopes a week for writing letters. additional stationary could be bought i think but i didn't have any use for that any of that.

i think the biggest factor that will affect your time inside and that's who you end up sharing a cell with. i was lucky really. although he was an alky on the outside, he was of course totally clean having already been resident before i moved in. he used to talk some crap but then that's no different to people you're stuck with on a day to day basis outside.

for me, the guards were pretty much invisible. behave yourself and you've got nothing to worry about.

the time dragged like hell. it was certainly the longest 5 weeks of my life. incidentally, i ended up there because of a family row. basically my whole family ignored my existence for years and then rattled my cage for no reason. so i got a bit upset and threatened one of them with a blunt weapon. i didn't use it and no one got hurt but the magistrates thought i was a danger despite it being a first offence so i was remanded. my case was referred to crown court costing the taxpayers thousands (not to mention the 800 odd quid a week to keep me inside). when i got there, the crown court couldn't believe my case hadn't been dealt with by the magistrate. it was a moment of madness for which i showed full remorse for and will never do again. i was finally released and sentenced to 120 hours community service for affray. :o
 
[TW]Fox;20152799 said:
For people in this level of poverty even putting food on the table is a challenge - is it therefore fair to say we shouldnt feed prisoners because some people not in prison cannot afford food?

Thats the point being disputed here - our point is that its ridiculous to state that a prisioner shouldnt have a television as if its some sort of luxury good - because it just isn't these days. It's a cheap disposable item.

No I am not stating anything of the sort. I do not think that prisoners should forgo a TV or even a playstation, especially if they are inducements to good behaviour and rehabilitation.

I was simply disagreeing with you that everyone can afford even cheap disposable electronics, there are some that cannot.
 
Oh boo hoo. Scumbag is in jail because 'society failed him'. More like he was an abusive delinquent at school because he CHOSE to be. He sold drugs because he CHOSE to. He stole cars because he CHOSE to. He glassed someone for looking at him because he CHOSE to. He's in prison because he CHOSE to take the risk.

I was inside with a few guys in for "death by dangerous driving". Really decent normal guys, regular jobs but got unlucky one day (not on mobile phone, not speeding, I think he was distracted) and went into the back of someone. Could've happened to anyone.

Point being, not everyone in prison is a scum bag.
 
Genuine question, who are these people?

Benefits are available if you're not working (Not much but housing + jobseekers is enough) and minimum wage is enough to provide the basics if you are working.

I help at a local housing project which houses 32 people who are in such a situation, they receive certain benefits, but contrary to common belief these benefits just about cover their food and clothing, housing and council benefit doesn't cover 100% of their rent like some people seem to think and so they need to find this also.

Without the project and food banks such as the trussell trust these people would be in serious deprivation, they cannot afford to buy big screen tv's and play stations regardless of how little they cost, they have enough trouble feeding and clothing themselves.
 
Oh boo hoo. Scumbag is in jail because 'society failed him'. More like he was an abusive delinquent at school because he CHOSE to be. He sold drugs because he CHOSE to. He stole cars because he CHOSE to. He glassed someone for looking at him because he CHOSE to. He's in prison because he CHOSE to take the risk.

But what made him chose to do those things, either he was born a bad guy (possible) or society failed him.

Plenty of people come from broken homes. Some suffer abuse, physical or even sexual. They don't all turn into scum, so the 'society failed' doesn't hold water imo.
Plenty of people drink drive and don't hurt anyone, does that mean we should legalize it? This is your argument and it is absurd.

It's just used as a prop to excuse their behaviour.

No one is using it as an excuse for their behavior, but a reason, there is a big difference.

Living as a normal functioning, generally law abiding citizen isn't that hard. 99% of the population manage it quite easily. If the same people are going to continue to break the law as prison is not a deterrent for them, then why put up with it at all? Do what the states do and have a three strikes law. Be convicted and sentenced to more then 1 year in prison three times and spend an extra 10-20 years there where they can't destroy the lives of those around them. Rack up 10 convictions for anything and go away for 10 years. I don't care about their rehabilitation, I care about not having my life ruined by some thug or my property stolen or destroyed because some thicko can't be bothered to work for a living.

You can have your own opinion, but you can't have your own facts, and the facts show that the 3 strikes rule has massively failed and rehabilitation is what works.

You say you care about having your life ruined and your property stolen or destroyed and yet, you want to implement a system that increases the chances of that happening and don't care about the thing that has shown time and time again to work and reduce the chances of those things happening to you.

That doesn't seem to clever now does it?
 
I help at a local housing project which houses 32 people who are in such a situation, they receive certain benefits, but contrary to common belief these benefits just about cover their food and clothing, housing and council benefit doesn't cover 100% of their rent like some people seem to think and so they need to find this also.

Without the project and food banks such as the trussell trust these people would be in serious deprivation, they cannot afford to buy big screen tv's and play stations regardless of how little they cost, they have enough trouble feeding and clothing themselves.

Fair enough :)
 
It means (in a nutshell) you are isolated from the rest of the region specifically west, east and north. I take none of you have ever heard the saying, "wrong side of the train tracks"? :rolleyes:

So by that logic, the north is also isolated from the other points on the compass, as are the East, and West from each other. Doesn't make much sense, I travel from Wiltshire to Manchester several times a month and have never been stopped or told I was isolated in the south and had to return.



And taking the second saying into consideration, you are implying that there is no slums, relative poverty or criminal behaviour in the UK except that found in the North of England?

Which clearly is nonsense.
 
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[TW]Fox;20152648 said:
I honestly do not beleive you - not anymore with technology pricing the way it is. I drove a 32" Panasonic widescreen television to the tip because even after advertising it as free to a good home and offering it to charity shops, nobody wanted it. It worked perfectly - a perfectly functional widescreen television. You cannot give these things away - if you really wanted one you could probably obtain one for less than the cost of a McDonalds Extra Value meal.

I'm not going to argue that it's common, because it isn't. But these people are out there, and they decide that having a TV is just too expensive to bother with. After all, it means more electric, and paying for TV licence.

I'm not saying you didn't try hard enough, but I swear you could have found someone without a TV to take that one happily off your hands.

Ditto games consoles. An old Playstation is worthless. They go on Ebay for often 10 quid!

They are, but that's because they're practically useless unless you buy games for them.

What you mean is that not everyone can afford a 50" LCD television and a Playstation 3. I agree with this, but then you wont find that setup in many prison cells either.

No, I mean some people cannot afford to have a TV or games console, period.

But that was 10 years ago! 10 years ago I doubt prison in-mates had a Playstation either.

It was merely an example to illustrate my point.

TAs for the people who work hard but can't afford games consoles and TVs, that'll be because it's low on the list of priorities of spends, they'll be running a house with all sorts of bills to pay and people to feed. A prisoner using the money they've earned within the prison to buy luxuries is quite a difference I think.

Why does that matter? The prisoner still ends up with the higher standard of living, which was the point I was trying to make. Why should those on the inside be able to afford/enjoy things that those hardworking on the outside can't?

Can you not understand there is something fundamentally wrong with that?

When you were 12, consoles were also much more expensive than they are now. :p

The Sony Playstation started at $299, which is what - £250 here? Hardly a world away. IIRC the likes of the SNES/MD were even cheaper.

[Edit] $190 for the MD, $199 for the SNES.
 
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