Singapore Grand Prix 2011, Marina Bay Street Circuit - Race 14/19

ps3ud0 · 28 Sep 2011 at 21:14

JRS said:
Indeed. And even before his move to McLaren was mooted, before the 2009 season in fact, I seem to recall a post....ah yes.

If you ever want the future predicted with 100% accuracy, I would venture to say that sunama is not necessarily the guy to ask

Shuush sunama is always right whatever the situation dictates, its not like he calls everyone else out when they are proven wrong

ps3ud0

sunama · 28 Sep 2011 at 21:16

JRS said:
Indeed. And even before his move to McLaren was mooted, before the 2009 season in fact, I seem to recall a post....ah yes.

If you ever want the future predicted with 100% accuracy, I would venture to say that sunama is not necessarily the guy to ask

Aaaah. This is the JRS who predicted that Button would beat Hamilton in the WDC last year!!!

I also happen to be about the only person who was claiming that Vettel would overtake Webber last year in the WDC last year, when everybody was singing Webber's praises. We all know how that worked out.

sunama · 28 Sep 2011 at 21:18

ps3ud0 said:
Shuush sunama is always right whatever the situation dictates, its not like he calls everyone else out when they are proven wrong

ps3ud0

I don't call people out. Predictions are supposed to be fun.
Much like in football, everybody thinks that their team is gonna win.
Unfortunately, the fun factor is lost on this forum.

I do however make an exception for JRS and call him out...everytime.

sunama · 28 Sep 2011 at 21:23

Panzerbjorn said:
Don't get me wrong, I full expect PDR to become a better driver than Sutil, it's just at the moment Sutil is performing better.

Just because driver A is exceeding expectations, it doesn't mean he's better than driver B who is matching expectations if you see what I mean.

Exactly.

I can't help feel that there is anti-German (or perhaps pro British) slant to all this.

Button qualifies badly but does well in races....good driving.
Sutil qualifies badly but does well in races...not a good driving.

Hamilton qualifies well, but doesn't do as well in races...bad form.
Di Resta qualifies well, but doesn't do as well in races...great driving.

The above makes no sense.

You can't have it both ways. If you are going to say that PDR is doing great this year, then you have to also say that Hamilton is doing great.

Another point is that some people believe that a driver improves steadily with time, in skill. This is not necessarily the case. A driver can have ups and downs, throughout his career. Hamilton is a great example, where his 2007 must rank as one of his best and this year (4 years later), is his worst.

JRS · 28 Sep 2011 at 22:00

sunama said:
Aaaah. This is the JRS who predicted that Button would beat Hamilton in the WDC last year!!!

You know, I still find it utterly hilarious how you went all 'Spanish Inquisition' on me over that

I, of course, do expect the Spanish Inquisition. And your weapon of surprise, surprise and fear, your two main weapons of fear, and surprise, and ruthless efficiency, your THREE main weapons of fear, and surprise, and ruthless efficiency, and an almost fanatical devotion to Fernando Alonso.

I'll come in again.

dannyjo22 · 29 Sep 2011 at 10:22

ps3ud0 said:
I dont think JB is driving that much better than when he won the WDC - hes just seems far more comfortable at McLaren and letting the car come to him and his drving style. As someone else has already said hes been letdown by the team more often than LH has too...

Hes not that special this year, but unfortunately when you compare it to LH in similar equipment, I can see why people think hes in the form of his life...:

This season is definately his best year but for the reasons you mention. He's driving far better than in his championship season. That year from silverstone onwards he was tense, driving too conservatively and not really fast at all. Even Rubens could come back at him. He wasn't relaxed at all in the car from silverstone.

Yes he's been let down this year more than lewis by the team but he also cost lewis a bunch of points by not seeing him (understandably) in the wet.

It's pretty telling that in arguably his best season or second best Lewis having a shocker is still so close despite throwing points and races away for fun.

sunama · 29 Sep 2011 at 10:31

dannyjo22 said:
It's pretty telling that in arguably his best season or second best Lewis having a shocker is still so close despite throwing points and races away for fun.

Don't forget, Button's car did break down, through no fault of his own.
So you could probably add an extra 10 points or so, on to the points total of Button.

Duke · 29 Sep 2011 at 10:43

sunama said:
Don't forget, Button's car did break down, through no fault of his own.
So you could probably add an extra 10 points or so, on to the points total of Button.

Yep twice, one for pitstop problem (tyre not on properly) and hydraulic problem. About 24 points lost.

His finishes have been good this year - http://www.formula1.com/results/driver/2011/6.html

Demon · 29 Sep 2011 at 10:45

Regarding Sutil/DiResta , the fact is that Sutil seems to be closer to his peak, he's been in F1 for a few years, so to me, he has found his natural level..

DiResta on the other hand shows he has more raw pace, and to me that shows he has more potential, so if I was looking to take a small risk and try and get an up and coming driver, PDR is a better choice the Sutil..

And I don't know why people think there is inconsistency, a lot of people still think Hamilton has more raw talent, and prefer him over Button, despite Button scoring more points this year, same kind of principle..

I guess some people like to watch 'exciting' drivers, some just look at the stats, each to their own..

Demon · 29 Sep 2011 at 10:46

sunama said:
Don't forget, Button's car did break down, through no fault of his own.
So you could probably add an extra 10 points or so, on to the points total of Button.

And if Hamilton hadn't been in front of Button when the 'tyre' choice fiasco reared it's head the other week, Button may have been on them and lost points, and if he hadn't hit Lewis, etc, etc..

Methinks people read too much into these things..

sunama · 29 Sep 2011 at 10:57

JRS said:
...and an almost fanatical devotion to Fernando Alonso.

The guy won 2 titles.
The guy has completely destroyed his team-mate (this is a big one for me).
The guy, in a car which was not the best, almost won the title last year.
The guy was rated as the best current F1 driver, by his own peers (not by fans or anybody else), in 2010.
The guy also finished top of the poll, when team principals were asked who the best driver in 2010 was.

The guy IS the best. Plain and simple. No question.

In saying that, Vettel, is now close to him (IMO).
Vettel is everything that Hamilton promised to become, which kind of bugs me.

sunama · 29 Sep 2011 at 10:59

Demon said:
Regarding Sutil/DiResta , the fact is that Sutil seems to be closer to his peak, he's been in F1 for a few years, so to me, he has found his natural level..

DiResta on the other hand shows he has more raw pace, and to me that shows he has more potential, so if I was looking to take a small risk and try and get an up and coming driver, PDR is a better choice the Sutil..

See...now why couldn't someone have put this argument to me earlier.
He got it in one.
That's what I was waiting for.
How can I possibly argue against that?

Instead of putting together a proper argument/debate, people on this forum just resort to name calling, which doesn't win any debate.

JRS · 29 Sep 2011 at 11:19

sunama said:
snip

*sigh*

I paraphrase Monty Python, modifying the skit to suit you, and you respond with a humourless assertion that Fernando Alonso is the best driver in F1

EddScott · 29 Sep 2011 at 12:25

sunama said:
His contract has completely destroyed his team-mate (this is a big one for me).

Edited.

sunama · 29 Sep 2011 at 13:53

the_chicco said:
errr no, Alonso is really not the best.

You'd be great to debate against.

Skeeter · 29 Sep 2011 at 13:56

sunama said:
The guy has won 2 titles.
The guy has completely destroyed his team-mate (this is a big one for me).
The guy, in a car which was not the best, almost won the title in 2009.

Ive changed 1 detail and all the above apply to Vettel....

And Vettel hasn't had to cheat his way to success when he couldn't do it on raw skill.

sunama · 29 Sep 2011 at 14:15

Skeeter said:
Ive changed 1 detail and all the above apply to Vettel....

And you will notice in my original post I highlighted how highly I rate Vettel (ie. not far off Alonso).

The important parts that you missed out was when Alonso was rated as the best by his own peers (that's big). And that Alonso was rated as the best less than 12 months ago by a poll of team principals. Vettel cannot boast this.

Oh and if I really wanted to be pedantic... Vettel has only 1 won world title.

sunama · 29 Sep 2011 at 14:16

the_chicco said:
There is nothing to debate. If he was the best he would be leading the WDC it's really that simple.

Hehehe.

If only it was that simple.

ps3ud0 · 29 Sep 2011 at 14:33

JRS said:
*sigh*

I paraphrase Monty Python, modifying the skit to suit you, and you respond with a humourless assertion that Fernando Alonso is the best driver in F1

Im learning that with sunama you cant do the intelligent quip - it will just go way over his head. Why waste it

Ill email the programmer in the hope he loads the Python data ready for the next race...

ps3ud0 :cool:

JRS · 29 Sep 2011 at 14:47

ps3ud0 said:
Im learning that with sunama you cant do the intelligent quip - it will just go way over his head. Why waste it

He gets most of them. You just get the odd one that seems to go so far over his head that it ends up in orbit. I'll just have to remember not to bother alluding to Python with him in future and pick something else :cool: