30/11 Strikes.

[Dolph]

LOL the poor asking for public sector cuts, I have seen it all now

Public sector workers aren't poor... solving the public spending crisis and dealing with public sector inefficiencies will allow better treatment of the poor.

Of course, the other challenge is making the poor realise that simply giving them money isn't actually helping them...

 

[platypus]

Why do you think all people against the strikes are Tory and/or rich?

I'm not sure we should really be taking oultons posts with anything other than a Macdonalds serving sized pinch of salt.

 

[Basher]

I think this episode is a great case for changing the way democracy works.

I think that government workers or contractors or anyone that is on the receiving end of any sort of government budget. Be it national or at the council level. Should not have the right to vote.

Giving government beneficiaries the right to vote is a conflict of interest and will ultimately lead to the bankruptcy of the government and the destruction of the productive half of the economy.

I would also consider removing the right to vote for all people on welfare. The only people that should have the right to vote are tax paying British citizens of birth that do not work in the public sector. This would end the conflict of interest and give justice to the term, public servant.

Explain the conflict of interest ...

 

[Deleted member 66701]

Purely the polar opposite on the spectrum to your militant socialism. Both are fairly distasteful.

Ooh, the millitant word Are you saying socialism is as bad as facism?

Time has already told. The majority are sick of the behaviour of the unions.

Really? Not been reading the polls then?

 

[oulton]

Are you one of those people that thinks you should get something for nothing?
Or you just cant accept that things need to be changed?

There are thousands of tax dodging city boys in the uk taking home in excess of 1 mllion pound bonuses each christmas.

 

[platypus]

Public sector workers get fair pay, decent working conditions and more than generous pension, so whay are you backing the strikes if you belive in a 'fair' deal?

Because he doesn't believe in a fair deal. He's a union rep, and is, shock horror, a hypocrite.

He calls private sector workersmugs for sticking with a job in a volatile, overly competetive and down right difficult job market, and yet doesn't apply the same logic to public sector workers.

 

[Ahleckz]

I respect him (and all the other sensible people) for not doing so.

I'm blushing here Robbo!

 

[platypus]

Ooh, the millitant word Are you saying socialism is as bad as facism?

At the extreme end of the spectrum? Yes. Are you saying extremeism isn't a bad thing ?

 

[Robbo]

I'm blushing here Robbo!

I have to say all the Christmas hats are making this thread far more comical to read than it otherwise would have been. It's glorious.

 

[oulton]

I'm blushing here Robbo!

lover boys get a room

 

[Deleted member 66701]

Public sector workers get fair pay, decent working conditions and more than generous pension, so whay are you backing the strikes if you belive in a 'fair' deal?

I believe it is fair to have the contract you signed honoured and if that is not possible (as I agree with Dolph there are occassions require a change of contract) then there should be negotiations to reach agreement on that change.

What I think is unfair is that there have not been any negotiations on these contract changes - dictation != negotiation.

I also think it's unfair for those changes to be a stealth tax on the easy to target public sector that will be used to reduce the deficit and NOT to ensure pensions are adequately provisioned (if the aim was to "fix" the pensions then the extra funds would be ringfenced).

 

[Deleted member 66701]

At the extreme end of the spectrum? Yes. Are you saying extremeism isn't a bad thing ?

I would debate that Socialism isn't extreme - the same as I would not consider Capitalism or Liberalism extreme.

Facism, Communism, Anarchism etc I would all consider extreme.

 

[Deleted member 66701]

He calls private sector workersmugs for sticking with a job in a volatile, overly competetive and down right difficult job market.

I've never said that

 

[platypus]

I would debate that Socialism isn't extreme - the same as I would not consider Capitalism or Liberalism extreme.

Facism, Communism, Anarchism etc I would all consider extreme.

Well that obviously depends on your opinion. I would debate that Socialism can be extreme, as can most forms of politicism. A debate for a different thread probably.

 

[County]

There are thousands of tax dodging city boys in the uk taking home in excess of 1 mllion pound bonuses each christmas.

You wish you were one. Go on admit it.

 

[anything I don't mind]

Bloody hell groen - you're turing into a right little Hitler aren't you?

You don't like my idea for reforming democracy?

I am thinking of forming a political party called libertarian national party

 

[Robbo]

You wish you were one. Go on admit it.

Of course he does. I bet an awful lot of this nonsense is born of jealousy.

 

[platypus]

I believe it is fair to have the contract you signed honoured and if that is not possible (as I agree with Dolph there are occassions require a change of contract) then there should be negotiations to reach agreement on that change.

What I think is unfair is that there have not been any negotiations on these contract changes - dictation != negotiation.

I also think it's unfair for those changes to be a stealth tax on the easy to target public sector that will be used to reduce the deficit and NOT to ensure pensions are adequately provisioned (if the aim was to "fix" the pensions then the extra funds would be ringfenced).

The unions say there haven't been negotiations, the government say there have.

Why is it ok for the unions to dictate changes or strike, but not ok for the government to apparently do the same?

 

[topshot]

I believe it is fair to have the contract you signed honoured and if that is not possible (as I agree with Dolph there are occassions require a change of contract) then there should be negotiations to reach agreement on that change.

What I think is unfair is that there have not been any negotiations on these contract changes - dictation != negotiation.

I also think it's unfair for those changes to be a stealth tax on the easy to target public sector that will be used to reduce the deficit and NOT to ensure pensions are adequately provisioned (if the aim was to "fix" the pensions then the extra funds would be ringfenced).

So there should be immunity from cuts just because they are public sector and dont agree with it?

Given the state of the Economy and gloomy forecast i would say the pension scheme is fair.
Lets not forget how many private sector people have had pension schemes scrapped and wage cuts/freezes to go along with it.

I get the feeling a lot of workers felt bullied into striking yesterday either from colleagues or union reps.

 

[Dolph]

Explain the conflict of interest ...

While I don't agree with Groen on this point, there is a clear conflict of interest in someone who relies on the state for their income having influence upon them.

My solution to this is to get the state to treat people equally, rather than banning them from voting however.