**** Original Starcraft 2 Thread ****

That one is easy since u just run the outer 2 and let the middle shoot :p

The last one and banshee micro as a zerg player were pretty balls.

Yea pretty much the same for me. Took me a while to get the right timings for the banshee micro and that last one was just...a massive pain :o got there in the end though :p
 
TvP: 2 rax expand into fast medivacs. Do a standard 2 rax build, with one reactor and one tech lab and push with 2 marauders, a few marines, and concussive shells. Keep army trading with the protoss, while getting an expansion up as well as a starport. Once you have medivacs out, lift army between his main and natural and this is pretty much gg for him. This is assuming he got an early expansion. If he didn't, then I keep my army back home and build 2 bunkers in my natural. Stick a marine on each watchtower and at the bottom of his ramp, and scan his main to see what he's up to. Usually it'll be a 3 gate robo which can be held pretty easily by mass repairing the bunkers and some decent micro, after which you'll be way ahead in eco.

A variant of this has been working quite well for me recently. Drop 1st rax immediately after depot delaying next scv and then another rax after 2 scv's. You hit the P very early with about 4/5 marines and 3 scv's at which point they usually have either a stalker, a zealot or both. You may see a sentry but if timed right not enough energy for FF. Plan is to kill his units, at least 4 probes and possibly a pylon also with the push. Usually this is achievable.

In the meantime, you've dropped a bunker at your main/natural and can expand or drop another bunker depending on what you've scouted. By 10 mins in and hard macro you should be dropping the shizzle out of him.

It's not a game winning move but it can just give that early edge which T neeeds against P.

TvT: :confused: haven't got a standard strat for this. Usually I 1 rax expo into marine tank viking play but I'm not too happy with it. It makes for dull games and is kinda vulnerable early on. Anyone got suggestions?

I don't like it but Hellion drop into siege tank drop has been working well for me. Key is getting the first medivac back to your base at which point you've got 2 siege tanks with siege tech, 2 medi's and about 15 marines. Just pop as much as you can somewhere in his main and creep forward. Usually GG if you can get those two tanks in. Be prepared to base trade.

It's a bit of an all in but if TvT goes past 10 mins it's insta lose for me.
 
TvT: :confused: haven't got a standard strat for this. Usually I 1 rax expo into marine tank viking play but I'm not too happy with it. It makes for dull games and is kinda vulnerable early on. Anyone got suggestions?

I had someone spam ravens the other day... and someone proxy a sizeable battlecruiser army against me...

I went your standard marine tank viking and both quite happily beat me so both have a good amount of potential (although someone better than me should be able to scout the battle cruisers i would think)

Problem i have in a TvT is people often turtle up with lots of tanks and turrets.. you expand and start building your own death ball army to steam roller them only for them to pull 10 battle cruisers from nowhere :D
 
Just had a rather nice victory over a rather ill mannered chap. Couple of nice blink trains :D

I would be greatly obliged if you took a look at the replay here, and help me improve! Forge fast expand worked for me for once :D
 
IEM streams have started up over on twitch. :>
Been some amazing games so far today, especially PvP. MrBitter said the Hasuobs v Elfi series was one of the best he's seen, so I'll have to try and catch up on that one. It's been a day of Mothership madness.

MMA looked unstoppable in his group. He'll probably win the whole thing.
 
Anyone interested in starting a YouTube channel for beginners level play? I was thinking on the lines of at first putting my own replays up, and talking through what I did, and where I could improve, and then moving on to others' replays as they are submitted.

Will focus on gold downwards, and as I get promoted move on to higher levels of play :)
 
Anyone interested in starting a YouTube channel for beginners level play? I was thinking on the lines of at first putting my own replays up, and talking through what I did, and where I could improve, and then moving on to others' replays as they are submitted.

Will focus on gold downwards, and as I get promoted move on to higher levels of play :)

I'm going to start getting into casting more soon. If you need any help analyzing replays then just let me know through trust and we can figure out an easier way to communicate.
 
Just had a rather nice victory over a rather ill mannered chap. Couple of nice blink trains :D

I would be greatly obliged if you took a look at the replay here, and help me improve! Forge fast expand worked for me for once :D

Well done :). You outplayed your opponent by such a large margin I felt sorry for him. He didn't seem to have any idea what he was doing - no warp gates, 3 gateways mass zealot into an expo (at a place other than his natural :confused:). Then mass void rays while not using a single chronoboost the whole game lol. Didn't saturate any of his mineral lines properly. He buys multiple observers but doesn't even scout with them....

As for criticism of your play, you did a lot better. You did things in a fairly logical order and didn't really miss anything crucial. There are just a few easy tweaks you could work on which would improve your play hugely. Here's the list of things I came up with while watching the replay:

- scouting/map vision: you should always get an observer or two and scout his base to see what he is up to. Also, it's totally ok to sacrifice a probe now and then into the front of his base to see what his army is. What I like to do after I get my 3rd base started is to set a worker or 2 patrolling between all the unused expos of the map to see if he's got any ninjas. If you'd done this you could have killed all his expansions before his army had time to respond.

- production buildings: once you get your natural reasonably saturated, you should have more than 4 gates/1 robo. Six or seven gates is a more standard number and would have helped you keep your money from building up. (I know you did throw down more gates, you just needed to do that a bit earlier :))

- chronoboost: in the early game, concentrate on chronoing probes, but after that the forge should be your focus. If you've genuinely got too much chronoboost that you can't spend it, just use it on your warp gates to get a bigger army faster.

- army composition: blink stalkers are good, but you should have a more varied composition since you didn't know he was going voids (you were lucky the stalkers turned out to be the perfect counter). If he'd been massing up immortals you'd have been screwed. Also keep an observer with your army at all times, in case of DTs but also so that he can't have an observer of his own following it around giving him intel.

- upgrades: once you're on 3 bases, always get a 2nd forge and get double ups. You can afford the gas. Chrono them both constantly too.

- HOTKEYS!! This last point is potentially the most important. At the very least, you should have 3 hotkeys - one for your army, one for your nexuses and one for your robos. Ideally, you should have a seperate hotkey for the casters in your army, as well as a hotkey for your forges so you don't have to go back to base to select them. When I play P, this is my setup:

1) main army - stalkers, zealots, immortals, colossi etc. Anything which can be a-moved. If for example I need to micro colossi, I will a-move my army, then ctrl+click on a colossus and micro them separately.
2) casters - sentries, HTs etc.
3) spare slot. Used for my initial scouting probe, then things like warp prisms if I'm dropping, or scouting observers.
4) nexuses
5) warp gates
6) robos
7) stargates
8) forges, twilight council, cyber core, fleet beacon.


Those are the aspects of your play which struck me as the most deficient. Overall you played pretty well though, and I could make a similar list for anyone below GM lol. There are a few other nitpicks, such as transferring probes to your natural earlier, or making sure you get your vespene geysers at the right times, but really these are unimportant and are the kind of things which you will iron out just with experience. GLHF

EDIT: also that was the worst BM I've ever seen :D
 
Last edited:
- scouting/map vision: you should always get an observer or two and scout his base to see what he is up to. Also, it's totally ok to sacrifice a probe now and then into the front of his base to see what his army is. What I like to do after I get my 3rd base started is to set a worker or 2 patrolling between all the unused expos of the map to see if he's got any ninjas. If you'd done this you could have killed all his expansions before his army had time to respond.

- production buildings: once you get your natural reasonably saturated, you should have more than 4 gates/1 robo. Six or seven gates is a more standard number and would have helped you keep your money from building up. (I know you did throw down more gates, you just needed to do that a bit earlier :))

- chronoboost: in the early game, concentrate on chronoing probes, but after that the forge should be your focus. If you've genuinely got too much chronoboost that you can't spend it, just use it on your warp gates to get a bigger army faster.

- army composition: blink stalkers are good, but you should have a more varied composition since you didn't know he was going voids (you were lucky the stalkers turned out to be the perfect counter). If he'd been massing up immortals you'd have been screwed. Also keep an observer with your army at all times, in case of DTs but also so that he can't have an observer of his own following it around giving him intel.

- upgrades: once you're on 3 bases, always get a 2nd forge and get double ups. You can afford the gas. Chrono them both constantly too.

You can get a second forge on 2 bases depending on your gameplan. 2 forges = macro game. 1 forge = timing attack.

Always use 1 chrono on warpgate research if not more. It all depends on your gameplan where to use the chrono.

You'll find the 1 chrono will give it a good boost, you don't want to be caught with warpgate not finishing if your opponent tries a 4gate or 3gate pressure.

I'll watch the replay when I get in. Going out for my 21st in a sec.
 
Last edited:
Anyone interested in starting a YouTube channel for beginners level play? I was thinking on the lines of at first putting my own replays up, and talking through what I did, and where I could improve, and then moving on to others' replays as they are submitted.

Will focus on gold downwards, and as I get promoted move on to higher levels of play :)

I would be willing to send you replays and stuff if you want. I am a silver level tos but i only ever get gold really these days. Just give me an email in trust and I can give you a few games. Will give you more of a variety of material to cover if you wish :)
 
Just getting back into this, but was wondering if someone could spec me some build orders? I play Terran and vs Zerg I typically reactor Hellion expand, but vs Terran and Protoss I don't really know what to do besides 3rax stim, which is nice but a bit too all-in and not great for getting better at macro, or anything besides micro in general.

Was thinking in TvT to go Banshee (No cloak) expand, but not really sure what to do TvP.

Trying to find something relatively safe/macro orientated as I want to work on a single solid build for each match up, rather than faffing about with different strats.
 
Just getting back into this, but was wondering if someone could spec me some build orders? I play Terran and vs Zerg I typically reactor Hellion expand, but vs Terran and Protoss I don't really know what to do besides 3rax stim, which is nice but a bit too all-in and not great for getting better at macro, or anything besides micro in general.

Was thinking in TvT to go Banshee (No cloak) expand, but not really sure what to do TvP.

Trying to find something relatively safe/macro orientated as I want to work on a single solid build for each match up, rather than faffing about with different strats.

In TvZ I do this:
10 Supply Depot (and throughout)
12 Barracks (Marines throughout)
13 refinery
15 OC
@100 gas factory
refinery
@100% factory tech lab

basically just keep pumping marines from the barracks, and tanks from the factory, and get siege mode as soon as you can afford to (without cutting tank production). pretty soon you'll build up 400minerals with which you can throw down a CC in your main. When it's building, I throw down two more barracks which I float down into my natural to assist in walling off. Keep your tanks deployed behind the wall in your main until it's safe to move them down to your natural behind a bunker and the two barracks. My gameplay from here on varies depending on what I see the enemy doing, but usually I'll add another two barracks, a starport, an engineering bay and an armory. Keep constant tank and marine production (get a tech lab on one of the barracks to research upgrades), while adding just a couple of medivacs. For upgrades, I usually get combat shield first followed by stim, then I focus on infantry attack. Remember +1 vehicle attack as well which will let your tanks 1-shot lings regardless of their armour. I push out while my 3rd CC is building with a large marine tank ball and try and kill of the zergs third which usually works.
 
In TvZ I do this:
10 Supply Depot (and throughout)
12 Barracks (Marines throughout)
13 refinery
15 OC
@100 gas factory
refinery
@100% factory tech lab

basically just keep pumping marines from the barracks, and tanks from the factory, and get siege mode as soon as you can afford to (without cutting tank production). pretty soon you'll build up 400minerals with which you can throw down a CC in your main. When it's building, I throw down two more barracks which I float down into my natural to assist in walling off. Keep your tanks deployed behind the wall in your main until it's safe to move them down to your natural behind a bunker and the two barracks. My gameplay from here on varies depending on what I see the enemy doing, but usually I'll add another two barracks, a starport, an engineering bay and an armory. Keep constant tank and marine production (get a tech lab on one of the barracks to research upgrades), while adding just a couple of medivacs. For upgrades, I usually get combat shield first followed by stim, then I focus on infantry attack. Remember +1 vehicle attack as well which will let your tanks 1-shot lings regardless of their armour. I push out while my 3rd CC is building with a large marine tank ball and try and kill of the zergs third which usually works.

I like my reactor hellion opening vs Zerg, mainly because my control is decent and the skill-level of players I face (Gold usually) get super panicky when Hellions turn up and tend to make mistakes which either results in me toasting their mineral line, or they go super heavy muta which I just stim-ball into the ground.
 
Playing 4 v 4 randoms for a change - 9 wins in a row which is highly strange in randoms!!

Having a bit of fun with it - 1 rax's into FE, then into 6 or 7 rax's!!!! lol
 
I like my reactor hellion opening vs Zerg, mainly because my control is decent and the skill-level of players I face (Gold usually) get super panicky when Hellions turn up and tend to make mistakes which either results in me toasting their mineral line, or they go super heavy muta which I just stim-ball into the ground.

Yeah, I know that's a good opening and a lot of players at every level use it. I have a sort of aversion to doing "what everyone else does" though which puts me off from doing this strat. Also, most times I've tried it, the zerg has preemptively got a spine or two, or roaches, so I never got any damage done. They counter it blind at diamond level simply because every Terran and his mum does this opening. I like siege expanding because it pwns any kind of early push, and gives you a very good foundation for the mid game, during which I push out and go expo-hunting. In addition, while fairly straightforward it's not a particularly common opener. Don't know why, as it works very well :)
 
Yeah, I know that's a good opening and a lot of players at every level use it. I have a sort of aversion to doing "what everyone else does" though which puts me off from doing this strat. Also, most times I've tried it, the zerg has preemptively got a spine or two, or roaches, so I never got any damage done. They counter it blind at diamond level simply because every Terran and his mum does this opening. I like siege expanding because it pwns any kind of early push, and gives you a very good foundation for the mid game, during which I push out and go expo-hunting. In addition, while fairly straightforward it's not a particularly common opener. Don't know why, as it works very well :)

So do you have any suggestions for TvT and TvP? Maybe Banshee expand for TvT and 2rax expand for TvP?
 
@sheep
Having an aversion to do what others are doing below Masters is stupid (no offence). Everyone is doing it because that's what works.

Plus you're not supposed to do damage with the hellions, that's the low league mistake you're making. The hellions are purely for map control and to deny creep spread.


@Trigger
It's not really like C&C imo, it's much deeper but i've never played any C&C at a competitive level. Plus I have always had a slight hatred for games that put a supply cap on you -_-

@Swi1ch
Go onto liquipedia and look at some of the build orders there. I wouldn't go for early expand builds unless you feel that you know how to deal with early aggression or cheese/4gate/pressure.

Banshee play is kind of gimmicky. It's great to catch a player off guard but it's just so easy to deal with so it's a coin flip.
 
Back
Top Bottom