Soldato
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- 22 Feb 2008
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Not entirely sure why, but almost every single one of your posts in this thread reads in my mind with the backing track of the most feeble golf clap ever heard.
Might just be the disagreement.
david cameron ''children should stand up''
- Thread starter cm1179
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Not entirely sure why, but almost every single one of your posts in this thread reads in my mind with the backing track of the most feeble golf clap ever heard.
Might just be the disagreement.
This was the rule in my schools (primary and secondary, but not in uni) and you had better follow them if you wanted to keep going there. School is basically a mini society for kids to learn before they step out into the real thing.
Just like school, society has rules that you have to follow if you want to be part of it.
Soldato
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How do you disrespect the law without breaking it ?
You can disrespect / insult a police officer and probably get away with it, but persistent disrespect would land you with a section 5 public order offence, so I am not sure how exactly you can disrespect the law 'effectively' without committing some kind of infraction even if its a minor misdemeanour.
Might need someone like burnsy in here who I think is in the met who likely knows this stuff a lot better than me
Then you have just answered your own question.
The child is punshed because they broke the rules by not following the instruction given, they broke those rules due to having no respect for them.
What does that even mean?
Just because you stood up doesn't mean you respect the teacher, does it?
Associate
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- 10 Dec 2009
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I'm very tired so please forgive me if I kind of miss your point a little.
The point I am trying to make is, it is impossible to justly punish a student for simply not standing when told to do so.
Agreed 100%. I once sat on a bench at a bus stop when I felt a whack against my shoulder. I had my eyes closed so was quite a surprised. Some old boy done me with his walking stick. Reason? There was an old lady that wanted to sit down but I didn't see her to offer her my seat. Was actually quite endearing. I still had to take his stick and throw it across the road, get right up in his face and politely promise to decapitate him the next time he tried that again. His face was ashen. A lot of old people think they can do just what they want and still be given respect.
no one is forcing anyone to respect anyone else, what they are doing is trying to teach respect for authority and thus following some basic if arbitrary rules.....such as standing until asked to be seated by the Teacher.
However...
I have a question to all those in support of respect for authority and elders.
I have not ruined anyones future, in fact I spent significant effort in protecting it. When I left school there was no work, there were similar levels of youth unemployment as there are today....however, there was not the opportunity to go to university for most people, or the various training and further education schemes available today....neither was the standard of living as high as it is today.....things are not so different today as 20 years ago, it is simply that peoples expectations have grown out of all proportion to their ability.
It is people like your parents that have worked and fought to give their children opportunities that they did not have, they also had very little part to play in the Soveriegn debt crisis that is the underlying cause of the economic situation in Europe which is affecting us all....
The youth future is not ruined, they simply have to go back to earning it rather than it being served on a platter like it was for the last decade.
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you are not showing respect to the teacher you are showing respect to position of authority as an educator, there is a distinct difference. The teacher themselves could be an ass hat, but you should still respect the position in the hierarchical structure, you don't have to like it but it the basics of respect in a hierarchical society or organisation.
Well that clearly shows how little you know. Thinking is encouraged - in fact you often get promotions out of it. Following orders is also encouraged because you have to accept that the people above you have obtained their rank through their skill and experience. I often disobeyed direct orders if their application would have not been beneficial. I also made damn sure I could justify those decisions and knew I would be held both accountable and responsible for their consequences.
The teacher has authority...yes?
The teacher asks the pupil to stand.....
The teachers authority give the teacher the right to do this.....
The pupil refuses, thus ignoring the authority of the teacher and therefore is not following instructions given.
A punishment given for not following an instruction given by someone with the authority to do so is just.
In a similar way, if you parents said you could not go out until 11pm and be home by 9pm, yet you simply didn't bother with the instruction given so you come home at 11pm anyway...
Does your parent not have the right to punish you for ignoring their authority?
No you're not, you're doing it to avoid punishment, not because you respect authority or their position.
You should have totally kicked him in the face then throw the old lady under the bus while you were at it, who do they think they are disturbing your sleep on you bench in public space???
If the teacher shows that they are abusing or unable to wield the authority to which they are entrusted then they should not have that authority and it should be removed. The respect for authority is in the position not the person.
But until which time that the teacher shows such behaviour the default position should one of respect, and in any case it is not the Pupils job and neither do they have the authority to decide on the competence of the teacher, that is the responsibility of the Headmaster, School Board and Parents....the pupil should follow the instructing given (unless illegal or dangerous) and then report the incident to the relevant person, normally the Parent
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you need to separate the person from the position. You are not respecting the teacher person you are respecting the teacher position, it is 2 different things.
For example say you were in the Army and you held the rank of corporal, your captain might have done something heinous like sleep with your wife, but while you are on the line you still salute him..... but what you are saluting is not the captain as the person but merely the rank of captain.
Obviously when out of uniform you'd kick his ass back to the stoneage..........