Arsenal & Arsene Wenger

Status
Not open for further replies.
About Morinho. in the past yes he likes to have a warchest of funds to succed but whos to say he wants the same for his next role? maybe he wants to settle down now and build a team with limited budget?

diddnt he win the CL with porto? Porto wasnt exactly rich were they.

People can change. Look at wenger as a prime example. 6 years ago he was a top class manager, now he is no better then Moyes.

His lost it big time for the reasons stated by DM.

All i am saying is dont rule out Morinho. Dont rule out the fact people change either. imo Morinho would do a far better job then wenger with THIS current crop of players. why? Because Morinho is a better tactician then Wenger for starters and Morinho motivates his players better.

He will get players like Gevinho playing better then they are now and would never play walcott in CF or Ramsey as a winger.

He will also teach this side to shut up shot. teach them to defend and not leak silly goals etc etc.

plenty of things Morinho and pretty much a lot of managers could do better then wenger.

edit: the only reason wenger should stay in charge is to benefit other sides such as Spurs so they have a better chance of finishing above Arsenal
 
The only way Mourinho would join Arsenal is if he was given a lot of money to spend and by that I mean a sudden Abramovich sized backing, in Arsenal's current financial situation (and baring in mind they've never been big spenders) and league position Arsenal just aren't a big enough club for him.

When Mourinho comes back to the PL he'll want to go to one of the top 3 sides in the country those being Man Utd, Man City and Chelsea. The only other side he may consider would be Liverpool but it would take a massive change of fortunes and serious signs of them being capable of being title challengers which as things stand looks to be an impossible task.
 
Tom84 said:
The only way Mourinho would join Arsenal is if he was given a lot of money to spend and by that I mean a sudden Abramovich sized backing, in Arsenal's current financial situation (and baring in mind they've never been big spenders) and league position Arsenal just aren't a big enough club for him.

When Mourinho comes back to the PL he'll want to go to one of the top 3 sides in the country those being Man Utd, Man City and Chelsea. The only other side he may consider would be Liverpool but it would take a massive change of fortunes and serious signs of them being capable of being title challengers which as things stand looks to be an impossible task.
Click to expand...

why go to liverpool over arsenal who are in a slightly better situation then liverpool and why go to united? they dont have bags amount of cash and fergie aint retiring any soon.

Which leaves city and chelsea. i dooubt he will go to chelsea. not in the way they treated him there.

Arsenal have an owner, the russian billionaire who dwafts Roman and he has something like 25%+ shares at arsenal. if he takes over he can turn arsenal into the next city easily.

The potential of arsenal to become a city is there already.a lot can happen in 6months.

lets wait and see where morinho ends up and lets prey and hope wenger goes end of this season.
 
jonney_joop said:
why go to liverpool over arsenal who are in a slightly better situation then liverpool and why go to united? they dont have bags amount of cash and fergie aint retiring any soon.

Which leaves city and chelsea. i dooubt he will go to chelsea. not in the way they treated him there.
Click to expand...

Liverpool have more funds available and are a bigger club than Arsenal that's why he'd choose them, like I say they'd need to be in a better situation than they are at the moment though.

Why United? I hope you're not serious? Actually given the crap you were coming out with earlier you probably are. If the job was available Man Utd would be his first choice, money will always be available also.
 
The question isn't if Mourinho would take a job without a vast spending possibility, its if he'd be any good. Firstly his buying record overall is TERRIBLE, at Real its been Modric, Coentrao as his two biggest buys, neither were required in that team, neither work, both have been a complete waste. He bought more bad than good at Chelsea, and put them in a position to lose a ridiculous amount every year. Bought for the short term at every club he's gone to, and jumped out before the downslide that seems to go hand in hand with his style of management.

At Real because of the big names and wages of the defenders he couldn't really get rid of any, only bought a couple in, brought the wrong guys in and the defence isn't very good.

He had an unbelievable defensive line up when he joined Chelsea, Terry/Gallas was one of the best partnerships I've seen ever. At inter he had a strong defensive line up and bought in Lucio who had a couple epic years left in him. But most of his defensive strength comes from negative tactics and having a good team to start with. Neither of which are things we have/want at Arsenal.

We want someone who can start(if not finish) a longer term plan at Arsenal, get the right people in for the youth development, the right coaches, the right defensive coaches. Its largely why I think someone at a decent German club now would be the right option, their youth development country wide is ridiculously well respected across Europe and has caught up with Spain in that sense. Klopp really looks like he'd be a great choice, but I just can't see someone leaving Dortmund for Arsenal.

Mourinho left Chelsea/Inter after 2-3 years with major problems, poor squads, poor spending, loads of crap stuck on the books draining money out of the club, attitude/mentality problems, no improvement in structure at the club, youth training improvements, nothing Mourinho started 10 years ago in youth training is now producing good players. He's a short term, small thinking, get the best now and screw the future kind of manager, exactly what we don't want.
 
Where are the young players coming through Arsenals ranks? Wengers much vaunted youth policy has produced Jack Wilshire, one player in 16 odd years, tht's not too good is it and he has had more time than Mourinho.
 
Newbie007 said:
Where are the young players coming through Arsenals ranks? Wengers much vaunted youth policy has produced Jack Wilshire, one player in 16 odd years, tht's not too good is it and he has had more time than Mourinho.
Click to expand...

There have been loads just most of them haven't been any good :p Don't forget Ashley Cole came from our youth system and ermm...... Justin Hoyte?

A lot of people seem to have this impression that we churn out many great young players from our yoof system but in reality we buy 16/17 yr olds from abroad, play them in the reserves/league cup for a season and tada! Over the past 16 yrs we have mainly bought promising youngsters and developed them into good players. Cesc, Anelka, Aliadiere, Denilson and the list goes on :D
 
Cashly was pre Wenger's youth policy wasn't he? Personally I don't think a manager can buy in players between the ages of 16 and 21 and them claim they are a shinning example of that teams youth policy.
 
Not sure about about Ca$hley tbh. You're probably right. Come to think of it, he made his debut in 2000 so yeah, before this new youth policy. I'm not he has actually said that the players bought from 16-18 have been an example of how excellent out youth setup is, has he? Is it not just the media/pundits that have?

Either way, its not good enough. There were high hopes for the latest crop that are coming through but reports from the loan spells have not been good. I can't see anyone other than Eisfeld making it (Also another young player brought into the club).
 
With Arsenal we mostly buy at 18-21 and then people believe we have some kinda youth policy or let kids get a better chance than they would elsewhere. I've called this patently stupid for long before Arsenal actually got crap, because it was never true.

Cesc joined, was in the first team in months and one of our best players almost straight away, Wenger had very little to do with Cesc being good, Barca's proven youth setup made him 90% of the player he is, Wenger just likes to get the credit.

Very very few players joined and weren't good enough essentially straight away.

The number of players we've trained as kids through to reserves then into first team is, miniscule, for the amount we spend we've got about the worst success rate in the world. AFAIK Chelsea were in debt and didn't really invest in youth at all, they've spent more since Abramovich but no manager has really made it a priority, and Arsenal have spent more than most on the youth training and for a long time before Chelsea got money.

You've got Ashley Cole, who was essentially almost ready before Wenger joined, Wilshire, who is in every way not representative of the average quality of what our academy churns out, and almost nothing in between, Gibbs... who can't actually defend, and isn't very good attacking.

Even someone like Larrson was bought at 16, I wish we'd given him games, he's a really classy player, better than Ramsey for sure, better than Hleb who was around when we got shot of him better than a lot of our players.

As you say the lastest crop all look, meh, and they are always highly touted, then either don't get games or get 3 sub appearances(like 1 or 2 players a year, if lucky) then get paid to do nothing till they are 22-23 before finally walking out with bagloads of money in their accounts. The hoytes, jesus, both can't defend at all, there was never a single hint they were premiership quality and we held on to them for freaking ages, same goes for Randall and, I can't even remember if we still have Lansbury.

The fact that Larrson and Vela never got any real chance in the team, particularly over guys like Hleb who were freaking awful, and guys like Miyachi and Eisfeld haven't been given a chance is a joke and much more indicative of Wenger's "success" with youth.

People still say things like our team is young, but look at who starts most games, its not a very young team at all, nor are most of his signings. Vela has gone on to do great in La Liga, Eisfeld, okay its his first year and he's young but he looks miles ahead of the guys who did get there couple games chance, and he looked better than multiple first teamers in preseason, guys who shouldn't be at the club because they suck, yet he can't get a game.
 
^^ to add to that Chelsea seem to have a massive inability to see talent in their own academy and refuse point blank to push it through to their own first team (Jack Cork being the player they most need and cared least about).

Very similar to Arsenal really, quite a few players have left the academy because they have no chance to being Wengers fav in the first team as there is no chance he'll stick them in the first team (because they have no hype surrounding them in the first team in the first place).

It strikes me as so weird there are streams of players in their early 20's booted out of Arsenal every season to prem and champ teams to then be replaced by players about the same age who have more media "OMG KID IN TEH FIRST TEAMS" about them but no more talent or chance of first team action in the first place.
 
I think the thing with Wenger, is that he's been in charge for so long, people (including me) are scared to let go. Some see Arsene "as" Arsenal, in that he has built the whole club Ethos and way Arsenal play football. It's almost like him leaving would be a different Arsenal team we would be supporting. Change can be scary. What if the new manager does XYZ?
It's like Fergie. You would never get him to stand down even if Man U had seasons of trophy drought because he is respected for what he has done, and very successful. Ok so more successful than Wenger but, the point remains, they are both themost long term managers in the premiership with successful top teams.

Arguably, the fact Wenger remains this year suggests he would have gone already if it was truly him holding back Arsenal. They have had years to get rid. He remains. Why this year should he go? Because the number has now reached 8 instead of 7 without trophies? What about 9? 10?

Wenger manages and manages well with what he has.
 
I'd hate Jose Mourinho to come to Arsenal and luckily it's something I'm pretty confident it's never going to happen. Jose is a great manager but he is a short term fix, he likes to get trophies NOW at any cost. Yea he gets in some great players, he brought guys like Drogba and Essien at Chelsea but he also brought Ballack (was pretty good for a while), Tiago, Maniche, Jarosik, Diarra and Sidwell all to partner Lampard and Makalele in the centre of midfield, and then ended up trying to play 4 central midfielders before losing the title and getting fired by Chelsea, that doesn't sound like a boss pushing great tactics and spending wisely.

Then at Inter he had the chance to sign Motta on a free but instead he splashed out on Muntari from Pompy and then waited until the following season to sign Motta from Genoa for just over 10 million EUR's, and then Inter got into trouble under Jose's watch for dodgy transfer dealings.

So my point is even Jose isn't going to spend wisely, and if we got a guy in like him our side would be decimated, we have a great goalkeeping prospect, we have some great defenders and some good defenders in the youth team who will be coming through in the next few years. We have some of the best young midfielders and midfield prospects in the country in Ramsey, Wilshere, Coquelin, Gnabry and Nico all under 21 or 22, plus the likes of Cazorla and Diarby. Theo, Podolski, Gervinho and Giroud is not a bad strike force at all. We could do with more depth in defense but I don't think we are in a bad way!!

I'd want someone with a similar development mentality to Wenger not a Jose type that brings short term success.


edit:Very annoyed with myself that i missed out Arteta, jet another great signing Wenger has made in recent years!!

edit:Lol and the OX... I'm clearly not very awake yet!! :)
 
Last edited:
Wow, including Gervinho in "not a bad strike force".

Walcott is absolutely rubbish, just like against Bayern he offered absolutely nothing at all, Podolski is really decent, but not the best, Giroud hasn't proven much of anything yet and Gervinho is utterly rubbish in every single way.

Nico? Do you mean Yennaris? If so, he already appears to be one of Wengers "I'll play him when forced but he really has zero chance" guys. Ramsey is not a prospect, he's not improved in years and isn't very good. Gnabry doesn't look even marginally special and again has been subject to 2-3 sub appearances, a cup game then disappearing which usually means never to be seen again. Coquelin looks like he could be genuinely good, but while we have crap like Diaby and a manager like Wenger, Coquelin will never get a shot. He's MUCH better than some players who get far far more chances than Coquelin.

Of those you listed the only two that will ever get real time under Wenger, are Wilshire and Ramsey, one is truly brilliant, one is a bit rubbish, Diaby is simply awful.

There hasn't been many seasons of late that we have signed more good than bad players, and none in which we haven't lost a player better than anyone we've signed by a huge margin.
 
drunkenmaster said:
Wow, including Gervinho in "not a bad strike force".

Walcott is absolutely rubbish, just like against Bayern he offered absolutely nothing at all, Podolski is really decent, but not the best, Giroud hasn't proven much of anything yet and Gervinho is utterly rubbish in every single way.

Nico? Do you mean Yennaris? If so, he already appears to be one of Wengers "I'll play him when forced but he really has zero chance" guys. Ramsey is not a prospect, he's not improved in years and isn't very good. Gnabry doesn't look even marginally special and again has been subject to 2-3 sub appearances, a cup game then disappearing which usually means never to be seen again. Coquelin looks like he could be genuinely good, but while we have crap like Diaby and a manager like Wenger, Coquelin will never get a shot. He's MUCH better than some players who get far far more chances than Coquelin.

Of those you listed the only two that will ever get real time under Wenger, are Wilshire and Ramsey, one is truly brilliant, one is a bit rubbish, Diaby is simply awful.

There hasn't been many seasons of late that we have signed more good than bad players, and none in which we haven't lost a player better than anyone we've signed by a huge margin.
Click to expand...

Gervinho is a very good player, he just hasn't produced it for Arsenal yet, but I think he will, he's showed how valuable he is during his time at Lille, I don't think he had a bad 1st season and this year hes not really been given a solid run in the team and I'd say 5 goals in 15 games isnt a poor return, He needs to be played more.

Can you really say Walcott is rubbish... really? He's produced more magical moments than most 23 year olds, and he's improved massively in the past couple of seasons.

Pretty sure Nico has recently signed a new extension to his contract, not sure if hes gona be a great player but we need players like him for depth that can play in afew positions in the future.

As for Gnabry hes still just a kid, 17 i think, and his final ball needs improving and stop snatching at shots and he does look very erratic the majority of the time but hes got awesome ability at creating chances out of nothing and beating players while being double and triple teamed. For me he looks like a awesome prospect.

Forgot about Eisfeld too (seen you mentioned him in and earlier post DM), he played some great football on his debut, great vision and his final ball has been amazing from what I have seen so far!!

I still think Ramsey will be a very important player for Arsenal, no matter what anyone says :)

I do understand where your coming from DM but I think your being way too harsh. I think there have been many improvements since last season, yeah we are not in a CL spot but there is plenty of time and its not gona be a disaster if we pick up a Europa League place instead, not that thats what I'd want.
 
Gervinho is a clearly awful footballer. Can't dribble, pass, shoot tackle or head the ball with any kind of success rate. Should never be allowed to grace a premiship game again.

Walcott is not the best footballer in the world but has his place and has been very useful to us over the last 3 seasons.

Our youngsters are going nowhere though, I have no idea what Ramsey is supposed to be good at.
 
CliffyG said:
Gervinho is a clearly awful footballer. Can't dribble, pass, shoot tackle or head the ball with any kind of success rate. Should never be allowed to grace a premiship game again.

Walcott is not the best footballer in the world but has his place and has been very useful to us over the last 3 seasons.

Our youngsters are going nowhere though, I have no idea what Ramsey is supposed to be good at.
Click to expand...

Just take a look at some of the through balls and link up play he provides :)
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top Bottom