Supplements the debate/discussion thread
- Thread starter Freefaller
- Start date
Soldato
- Joined
- 17 Jun 2010
- Posts
- 12,538
- Location
- London
One for the Craze fans: http://medicalxpress.com/news/2013-10-muscles-meth-drug-analog-craze.html
I think the people who have given this 'noobie' (also, ironically, a disparaging term for fresh meat) advice have been genuinely surprised that somebody doesn't take sufficient care of themselves to support their healthy existence let alone a gym routine.
Whilst you are correct - it is partially a sad reflection of what the internet has done to perceptions of common courtesy - most of the people who have posted would be very happy to offer support/advice when it comes to actually answering the Clovis' subsequent questions.
If you re-read the series of responses, there was helpful guidance provided at first, and then when the fundamental issues of the Clovis' situation became apparent, people were genuinely shocked that somebody would accept such a predicament as 'normal'.
Most people on appropriate diets do not need to supplement with protein shakes. People on inappropriate diets may benefit given certain criteria (as pointed out above, where protein intake from regular diet is insufficient in protein... obviously), but they are not a magic cure for a diet that is deficient across the board (not just in macro-nutrient content but also micro-nutrient content). This has also been outlined above.
I suppose if you REALLY wanted to, you could offer advice that would actually help the individual: taking whey protein is not the answer in this instance.
@Clovis: for avoidance of doubt, there is an abundance of knowledge on this forum from training to diet and routine/regime/whatever. Ask away.
- Joined
- 5 Jun 2003
- Posts
- 91,818
- Location
- Falling...
What a random arbitrary amount of protein. Any reason/science behind those numbers? I appreciate you're trying to help, but there is more to giving advice than random "g" of protein to a person who clearly is a little bit new to this sort of thing.
Exactly this.
If i'm really honest, my diet is very poor.
Because i work alternate shifts (6-2/2-10) My eating patterns suck.
When i'm at work for 6am, i won't eat all day until after i go to the gym, because my breaks are too early and it makes me feel sick.
When i'm on 2-10 ill eat poached eggs on toast around 9am, hit the gym at 10am, i will then go without any food until 7pm which is when i have my break, ill either have some fruit or a few tins of tuna, really bad i know.
I only eat once a day, i probably consume 300 calories a day.
You need to sort out your diet first before you need to start worrying about supplements. If you've overhauled your diet, and then are still struggling, then that is when supplementation helps and comes into its own. You need to be more organised and pre-prepare foods and be willing to put the effort in to make sure you do eat well.
- Joined
- 5 Jun 2003
- Posts
- 91,818
- Location
- Falling...
Not really, it's merely highlighting the shortfalls of what people's perceptions on gym nutrition are - just because we're not tickling the belly of a "noobie" for their supplement choices, doesn't mean we're being antagonistic - if they're really willing to change their lifestyles they have to accept that "uber whey, anabolic muscle, fat shredding super-stack (tm)" won't give them the results they hope and that the advice from a combined total of decades of expertise in this forum will be much more beneficial. Yes it's a little scary at first, but if you listen and take on board the advice and offer the information that is being requested you'll be helped and have a lot more time offered to you.
I think the people who have given this 'noobie' (also, ironically, a disparaging term for fresh meat) advice have been genuinely surprised that somebody doesn't take sufficient care of themselves to support their healthy existence let alone a gym routine.
Whilst you are correct - it is partially a sad reflection of what the internet has done to perceptions of common courtesy - most of the people who have posted would be very happy to offer support/advice when it comes to actually answering the Clovis' subsequent questions.
If you re-read the series of responses, there was helpful guidance provided at first, and then when the fundamental issues of the Clovis' situation became apparent, people were genuinely shocked that somebody would accept such a predicament as 'normal'.
Most people on appropriate diets do not need to supplement with protein shakes. People on inappropriate diets may benefit given certain criteria (as pointed out above, where protein intake from regular diet is insufficient in protein... obviously), but they are not a magic cure for a diet that is deficient across the board (not just in macro-nutrient content but also micro-nutrient content). This has also been outlined above.
I suppose if you REALLY wanted to, you could offer advice that would actually help the individual: taking whey protein is not the answer in this instance.
@Clovis: for avoidance of doubt, there is an abundance of knowledge on this forum from training to diet and routine/regime/whatever. Ask away.
Good post.
Top marks for just rolling in saying "Yeah this stuff should do" without actually helping to address the main obese elephant in the room which is a terrible diet that will not be fixed by glugging down a shake or 2.
At no point has anyone shot him down, have a proper read of the posts and you'll see that what we've actually tried to do is help and broaden his knowledge beyond "Take supplements wake up hench" attitude that a lot of people most of us included had at the start.
They aren't: they would die.
Clovis is clearly getting more than the thinks he is, but is probably completely off-whack in terms of WHAT he is getting. Unless, of course, he's actually Christian Bale and is preparing for The Machinist 2...
Soldato
- Joined
- 3 Jun 2005
- Posts
- 7,614
It's enough to cover the vast majority of peeoples needs, and it's better to have too much than too little.
He asked whether to take protein shakes or not, and as he appeared to be new to this I kept it very simple instead of overloading him with info. If he is serious about lifting he can tweak all his macros when he understands things better.
- Joined
- 5 Jun 2003
- Posts
- 91,818
- Location
- Falling...
There's no real need for that much protein, besides other than using lots of shakes it also gets expensive, and restrictive. The issue is more around the fact he's just not getting enough (or the correct type (at a guess)) calories in. For someone who is just starting staying 250g of protein is what you need, is frankly not helpful.
If he's serious about lifting he'll sort out his diet first and then worry about supplementation. Supplementation just addresses shortfalls in diet, or can add a little extra boosts in nutrition that sometimes a busy schedule can be short of, or just be hard to get.
Thanks for the replies guys, really helpful info
I have posted before about my issues with food. The reason i'm so restrictive with what i eat is because i suffer from anxiety, which is linked to weight gain, worrying that if i eat, i'm going to put weight on, even the smallest of things.
Ever since i found out, i have pretty much starved myself everyday, eating little bits now and again to curve the hunger, but not enough it will have an effect on my body.
I know this may seem hard to believe, but i have been suffering with this condition for so long, it's like second nature to me, get up and go to work, not eat all day, come home, shower and watch tv/play pc games on days i'm not going to the gym.
Even though i'm going to the gym and burning calories, still doesn't change the way i'm thinking about food.
I'm not looking at becoming a big lifter, i am more into getting fit, toned and generally more healthy.
If there was one main food, that had enough protein to get me through a gym session, what would it be?
I have posted before about my issues with food. The reason i'm so restrictive with what i eat is because i suffer from anxiety, which is linked to weight gain, worrying that if i eat, i'm going to put weight on, even the smallest of things.
Ever since i found out, i have pretty much starved myself everyday, eating little bits now and again to curve the hunger, but not enough it will have an effect on my body.
I know this may seem hard to believe, but i have been suffering with this condition for so long, it's like second nature to me, get up and go to work, not eat all day, come home, shower and watch tv/play pc games on days i'm not going to the gym.
Even though i'm going to the gym and burning calories, still doesn't change the way i'm thinking about food.
I'm not looking at becoming a big lifter, i am more into getting fit, toned and generally more healthy.
If there was one main food, that had enough protein to get me through a gym session, what would it be?
- Joined
- 5 Jun 2003
- Posts
- 91,818
- Location
- Falling...
Protein won't get your through a gym session - don't worry about that. If you eat well,you'll have energy for the gym. A banana and/or some coffee before a work out can help (it helps me) however it sounds as though you need to address some issues first, we're not best placed to offer such advice here really.
I have visited my GP, they wanted me to take medication which i don't want to use.
I intend to stick to the gym for as long as i can, even if it means only using treadmills/cycling etc to get my fitness back.
Starving yourself is not healthy and isn't going to do you any good. I can't really see any benefit of gym time if your body is in starvation you're not going to be building or maintaining any muscle due to atrophy*
*Someone please correct me if I'm wrong.
*Someone please correct me if I'm wrong.
- Joined
- 5 Jun 2003
- Posts
- 91,818
- Location
- Falling...
If you're not hitting your maintenance calories, you'll digest your muscles for energy, and actually end up being "skinny fat" before being skinny.
Soldato
- Joined
- 3 Jun 2005
- Posts
- 7,614
I didn't say he needed 250, I said aim for 200-250 expecting him not to measure correctly and allowing for a shortfall.
Thanks for the replies guys, really helpful info
I have posted before about my issues with food. The reason i'm so restrictive with what i eat is because i suffer from anxiety, which is linked to weight gain, worrying that if i eat, i'm going to put weight on, even the smallest of things.
Ever since i found out, i have pretty much starved myself everyday, eating little bits now and again to curve the hunger, but not enough it will have an effect on my body.
I know this may seem hard to believe, but i have been suffering with this condition for so long, it's like second nature to me, get up and go to work, not eat all day, come home, shower and watch tv/play pc games on days i'm not going to the gym.
Even though i'm going to the gym and burning calories, still doesn't change the way i'm thinking about food.
I'm not looking at becoming a big lifter, i am more into getting fit, toned and generally more healthy.
If there was one main food, that had enough protein to get me through a gym session, what would it be?
Not being privy to your previous discourse, I would STRONGLY encourage you to visit a doctor about this (yes, again), as hitting the gym in such a state will NOT be a clever thing to do.
As pointed out, going to the gym whilst on an acute chronic calorie deficit linked to an eating disorder is a great way of exacerbating your issues in a biiiiiiiiiiig way.
Another thing: if your GP is prescribing you meds you don't like, you should take the time to research your condition and discuss viable (not that crazy stuff about diluting active components - herbology or whatever) alternative treatments. GPs are not the authority on anything: they are the gateway to authorities, so bear this in mind when thinking about your treatment.
EDIT: Also, you need to try and be honest with yourself (work this through with another person who is not you) about why you don't want your medication. Go and see a doctor.
