Khat to be banned

Tefal · 22 Jun 2014 at 20:30

hurfdurf said:
But she would have been far more likely to be informed of the right amount to take, and therefore almost certainly be alive today.

no not really.

she supposedly did "extensive research" even cursory research or asking the person she bought it off would have told her the dose.

the alcohol example proves quite clearly people will abuse drugs to excess its just that most are much much easier to od on than alcohol.

im going to guess you didn't even read the article you posted hurf.

krooton · 22 Jun 2014 at 21:43

Tefal said:
no not really.

she supposedly did "extensive research" even cursory research or asking the person she bought it off would have told her the dose.

That in itself is weird with the story, people don't bomb half a gram, even of lower purity stuff. She must have done her research poorly.

Meridian · 22 Jun 2014 at 21:43

Burnsy2023 said:
Who in your opinion is a leading authority?

I don't believe there is a single one, but there's a fair few in various countries. I'm just fed up with Nutt being quoted as if he's the be-all and end-all of the subject - usually by people who want their drugs legalised and Nutt supports them.

There is no "right" answer. You just listen to all the views and then try to balance pain and gain. Everything has a price: legalisation, de-criminalisation, prohibition. All of them.

Meridian · 22 Jun 2014 at 21:44

[FnG]magnolia;26493979 said:
Why not here?

Here's a clue: read some of his other posts on the subject of immigrants.

Will21st · 22 Jun 2014 at 21:49

Meridian said:
I don't believe there is a single one, but there's a fair few in various countries. I'm just fed up with Nutt being quoted as if he's the be-all and end-all of the subject - usually by people who want their drugs legalised and Nutt supports them.

There is no "right" answer. You just listen to all the views and then try to balance pain and gain. Everything has a price: legalisation, de-criminalisation, prohibition. All of them.

agreed.

Tefal · 22 Jun 2014 at 21:49

krooton said:
That in itself is weird with the story, people don't bomb half a gram, even of lower purity stuff. She must have done her research poorly.

or she was actually a long time user and did the usual last ride of trying to chase the experience of the first high.

my decision to do that with LSD is the reason i can now now longer eat sugar snap peas.

mattyg · 22 Jun 2014 at 21:58

cainer said:
banning it will just drive the price up, it wont stop people doing what they do
once the price goes up criminal gangs will get involved in bringing it into the country
just let people do what they choose to do ffs.....

Surely at the price it'll be sold for on the black market it wont be worth risking the sentence to smuggle in

Burnsy2023 · 22 Jun 2014 at 22:03

Meridian said:
I don't believe there is a single one, but there's a fair few in various countries.

Such as?

Energize · 22 Jun 2014 at 22:10

mattyg said:
Surely at the price it'll be sold for on the black market it wont be worth risking the sentence to smuggle in

The risk is reflected in the price. When drugs become illegal their price increases massively to compensate for the risk. Every major illegal drug today was once legal and cheap.

Heroin and methamphetamine are prescription medications after all.

krooton · 22 Jun 2014 at 23:08

Tefal said:
or she was actually a long time user and did the usual last ride of trying to chase the experience of the first high.

my decision to do that with LSD is the reason i can now now longer eat sugar snap peas.

If she was a long time user at the age of 15 (usually around the time people become first time users), then there were way more issues than the story covers.

hurfdurf · 22 Jun 2014 at 23:14

Tefal said:
no not really.

she supposedly did "extensive research" even cursory research or asking the person she bought it off would have told her the dose.

the alcohol example proves quite clearly people will abuse drugs to excess its just that most are much much easier to od on than alcohol.

im going to guess you didn't even read the article you posted hurf.

What research can you do when all you have to rely on is hearsay and someone selling something illegally?

What's going to be safer, something regulated and taxed vs something bought on the street with no official testing or safety guidelines. She may have done something stupid but I dare say that there but for the grace of god go an awful lot of people.

dowie · 22 Jun 2014 at 23:31

Tefal said:
yes which was my point. she took a huge dose and died would have happened if it was legal or not. it was not the fault of the drug being illegal it was thew fault of her being an idiot.

try reading the quoted posts before you try to argue against the very point your making.

does the govt publish consumption guidelines for mdma? is the purity/concentration of the actual drug printed on the packets? :confused:

dowie · 22 Jun 2014 at 23:32

cainer said:
banning it will just drive the price up, it wont stop people doing what they do
once the price goes up criminal gangs will get involved in bringing it into the country
just let people do what they choose to do ffs.....

criminal gangs are already involved in its importation

Tefal · 22 Jun 2014 at 23:41

hurfdurf said:
What research can you do when all you have to rely on is hearsay and someone selling something illegally?
.

err the well documented ld50?

or you know ask the freaking dealer!!

otherise theres errowid, these drugs aren't really all on hearsay they're all quite well researched and there is lots of evidence and advice out there. much more so than for alcohol id say.

she would have died if it was legal or not.

What's going to be safer, something regulated and taxed vs something bought on the street with no official testing or safety guidelines. She may have done something stupid but I dare say that there but for the grace of god go an awful lot of people

yup like that good ol safe tobacco!

nothing dangerous in those well regulated packets of healthy goodness!

Tefal · 22 Jun 2014 at 23:43

dowie said:
does the govt publish consumption guidelines for mdma? is the purity/concentration of the actual drug printed on the packets?

hence why you don't instantly bomb what would be considered a massive dose for an experienced person.

you take a little bit and see how it goes.

my god how you people survive genuinely worries me, it does.
how have you not died because petrol pumps don't have a sticker saying "no drinking from the pump" is a wonder.

Tefal · 22 Jun 2014 at 23:44

krooton said:
If she was a long time user at the age of 15 (usually around the time people become first time users), then there were way more issues than the story covers.

indeed, but the mother seems to be doing everything she can to avoid looking at the only two people to blame.

herself and her daughter.

dowie · 22 Jun 2014 at 23:48

Tefal said:
hence why you don't instantly bomb what would be considered a massive dose for an experienced person.

you take a little bit and see how it goes.

and hence why regulation would be preferable...

your drinking form a petrol pump analogy is pointless and frankly a bit silly

you're talking about a 15 year old who's only been fed the line that "drugs are bad m'kay" and probably witnessed that actually plenty of people take drugs and seem more or less fine...

Tefal · 23 Jun 2014 at 00:13

dowie said:
and hence why regulation would be preferable...

your drinking form a petrol pump analogy is pointless and frankly a bit silly

you're talking about a 15 year old who's only been fed the line that "drugs are bad m'kay" and probably witnessed that actually plenty of people take drugs and seem more or less fine...

how does regulation stop people taking too much?

seriously it doesn't work every Friday night does it?

one question to the dealer "so hey how much you take at once" would have given her all the info she needed.

she supposedly "meticulously researched" the drug before taking it, which is blatantly not true.

if she did not decide to look up what was a sensible dose before she took it or even ask someone, then i doubt any amount of dosage information on the packet would have been read or heeded either.

Tefal · 23 Jun 2014 at 00:16

these drugs do not lend themselves well to regulation and legal consumption because the differences between a suitable active dose and a lethal dose are so close and the amoutns needed are so easily consumed.

its hard to drink an extra 6 pints to push yourself over the edge but another pill?

that's too easy.

especially when you're high or just coming off the peak and chasing it thinking a little bit more will bring it back.

it would be great if i could legally go buy some mdma down the corner shop it genuinely would but the idiots in this country who show themselves every Friday would turn the streets into a freaking graveyard if it ever happened.

Apok · 23 Jun 2014 at 00:35

Surely cant be the only one who misread this as "khan to be banned" lol