Poll: The EU Referendum: How Will You Vote? (March Poll)
- Thread starter Burnsy2023
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it wasn't just you - most of the replies were people discussing Brexit when the thread was about other countries, which is a separate topic and worthy of its own discussion
That is the 'end game' though - isn't it? Why else are they allowing visa free travel for the Turks if the aim isn't to have them as full members of the EU in the future?
I think I'm going to need a source for that. It's an astonishing claim if true since there was very little immigration to Sweden in the late 80s.
No, I don't think that's a reasonable assumption. Immigrants make up a small proportion of the Swedish population, the degree to which they'd need to be committing crime would have to be incredibly higher than the Swedish national population for that to be true.
You might want to read the Wikipedia entry on crime and immigration in Sweden.
And, in particular, this part:
A 2013 study found that both first- and second-generation immigrants have a higher rate of suspected offences than indigenous Swedes. While first-generation immigrants have the highest offender rate, the offenders have the lowest average number of offenses, which indicates that there is a high rate of low-rate offending (many suspected offenders with only one single registered offense). The rate of chronic offending (offenders suspected of several offenses) is higher among indigenous Swedes than first-generation immigrants. Second-generation immigrants have higher rates of chronic offending than first-generation immigrants but lower total offender rates.
A study using more comprehensive socioeconomic factors than the 1996 and 2005 reports found that "for males, we are able to explain between half and three-quarters of the gap in crime by reference to parental socio-economic resources and neighbourhood segregation. For females, we can explain even more, sometimes the entire gap." The authors furthermore found "that culture is unlikely to be a strong cause of crime among immigrants".
A study using more comprehensive socioeconomic factors than the 1996 and 2005 reports found that "for males, we are able to explain between half and three-quarters of the gap in crime by reference to parental socio-economic resources and neighbourhood segregation. For females, we can explain even more, sometimes the entire gap." The authors furthermore found "that culture is unlikely to be a strong cause of crime among immigrants".
Emphasis mine.
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I have done a lot of reading into claims about rape statistics in Sweden. They really need to be read in context and with an understanding of the Swedish legal system.
the main issue there is with the number of rapes as they report each occurrence as another 'rape' incident so a rape victim in an abusive relationship can count as several cases of 'rape' in Sweden whereas they'd be a single rape victim over here
however AFAIK what bitslice has quoted with regards to the portion of rapists being from a particular background doesn't have that sort of issue
I do find it strange that some people here take the stance "it's not rape" because of their legal system.
So must mean that Julian Assange has nothing to answer for? Can't have it both ways..
Also people are massively blurring the lines between sexual assualt and rape. (And before we get the usual mouthbreathers foaming, I am not diminishing or condoning either) Classic case of deuses post above.
And in bitslices post
He jumps straight from sexual assault to rape.
But sexual assualt statistics include inapropriate hugging, kissing or touching (eg, a slap on the bum) and the majority of these are committed by people known to the woman, such as family members, friends and work colleagues.
And in bitslices post
He jumps straight from sexual assault to rape.
But sexual assualt statistics include inapropriate hugging, kissing or touching (eg, a slap on the bum) and the majority of these are committed by people known to the woman, such as family members, friends and work colleagues.
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There have been many views shared on the reporting of sex crime statistics in Sweden. This is from memory so forgive me if any of it is slightly out but I'm pretty sure I got the gist.
- All other serious crime statistics remained static or reduced during periods of heightened immigration into Sweden.
- All potential instances of rape are captured in the stats. Not convictions, alleged events.
- In Sweden they capture each case of sexual violence individually and add them all up.
The upshot that to get counted in the stats for this type of crime in Sweden it doesn't have to be rape, it doesn't have to be true, it's not on a per-victim or per-attacker case but on a per-act basis meaning that a husband/wife scenario could result in tens of hundreds of alleged assaults, and lastly the sex crime stats are the only ones that have increased over the period of immigration with the rest remaining static or reducing.
- All other serious crime statistics remained static or reduced during periods of heightened immigration into Sweden.
- All potential instances of rape are captured in the stats. Not convictions, alleged events.
- In Sweden they capture each case of sexual violence individually and add them all up.
The upshot that to get counted in the stats for this type of crime in Sweden it doesn't have to be rape, it doesn't have to be true, it's not on a per-victim or per-attacker case but on a per-act basis meaning that a husband/wife scenario could result in tens of hundreds of alleged assaults, and lastly the sex crime stats are the only ones that have increased over the period of immigration with the rest remaining static or reducing.
And don't forget
"Turkey's biggest newspaper, Zaman, has published an edition carrying pro-government articles, two days after being taken over by authorities"
The EU is a mess.
Soldato
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While this is supposed to be tongue in cheek, part of me thinks it might not be that far from the truth sometimes.
I imagine same as why they get visa's now, to travel and visit relatives (most likely in Germany). Same as people from the sub-continent get visas to visit britain now. Visa waiver would just make this easier (and may increase people over-staying, but by no means guaranteed). Nothing to stop immigration refusing entry, same as we do sometimes even when we've issued a visa or it's a visa waiver country.
More importantly, the current Turkish ruling party / president have no desire to join the EU, they are autocrats busy cementing their own power. The last thing in the world they want is to join a huge bureaucracy and be governed by the rule of law.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...d-help-solve-the-refugee-crisis-a6916606.html
“Turkey joining the European Union is a strategic objective – it’s being going on for decade,” Mr Işik told BBC Radio 4’s Today programme.
Britain has however long supported Turkey accession to the EU. In 2010 David Cameron said he was “angry” at the slow pace of negotiations.
“A European Union without Turkey at its heart is not stronger but weaker... not more secure but less... not richer but poorer,” he said at the time.
The previous Labour government also backed Turkish accession.
Turkey has a fast growing population of 75 million, making it almost as large as Germany and bigger than Britain or France.
It would be the second largest EU member state and likely shift the balance of power in Europe.
The end game is to give all European nations the opportunity to join the EU as long as meet the conditions of membership.
Turkey fails spectacularly at the first condition:
stable institutions guaranteeing democracy, the rule of law, human rights and respect for and protection of minorities;
I see farmers moaning that they will lose subsidies if we leave the EU, what a farce, they run a business like everyone else so why should they get free handouts.
Forget little farmer Giles with his flock of sheep & 10 cows, most of this money goes to filthy rich landowners, the main subsidy, the single farm payment, is doled out by the hectare. The more land you own or rent, the more money you receive.
Huge swathes of land here are owned by exceedingly wealthy people. Some of them are millionaires from elsewhere: sheikhs, oligarchs and mining magnates who own vast estates in this country. Although they might pay no taxes in the UK, they receive millions in farm subsidies
Round where I live most of the farmers have rented out most of the land for horses but still receive the subsidies providing it seems they have at least one cow or sheep in a field.
The minister responsible for cutting income support for the poor, Iain Duncan Smith, lives on an estate owned by his wife's family. For over the last few years, the farm business operating off the country estate part-owned by Duncan Smith's son (with the minister's wife as a trustee) has received well over a 1.5 million pounds in taxpayer subsidies which is described by the EU as "income support" for farmers
Forget little farmer Giles with his flock of sheep & 10 cows, most of this money goes to filthy rich landowners, the main subsidy, the single farm payment, is doled out by the hectare. The more land you own or rent, the more money you receive.
Huge swathes of land here are owned by exceedingly wealthy people. Some of them are millionaires from elsewhere: sheikhs, oligarchs and mining magnates who own vast estates in this country. Although they might pay no taxes in the UK, they receive millions in farm subsidies
Round where I live most of the farmers have rented out most of the land for horses but still receive the subsidies providing it seems they have at least one cow or sheep in a field.
The minister responsible for cutting income support for the poor, Iain Duncan Smith, lives on an estate owned by his wife's family. For over the last few years, the farm business operating off the country estate part-owned by Duncan Smith's son (with the minister's wife as a trustee) has received well over a 1.5 million pounds in taxpayer subsidies which is described by the EU as "income support" for farmers
Soldato
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What are you on about? All the leave supporters here are so because of their unbiased views and well read views on the economy.
There are still people in Turkey who want to join the EU but the hugely popular government do not, pay it lip service to keep those who want it happy but are actively moving further away from any recognisable process to make it's institutions ready to join the EU.
You only have to look at the news to know Turkey's been on a divergent path since 2013 and probably some time before (We only get the big news, I'm sure EU diplomats knew more earlier).
We definitely need more houses, even if everyone who came the past dacade were to be kicked out tomorrow. The issue is the rich keep getting richer, people buy multiple houses as buy to let, then you got foreigners who buy houses as an investment and leave them empty.
Our government is doing very little to fix this issue. To me it seems they are either not qualified for the job, or more likely corrupt in some way and have other motives and are acting on information not available to us.
Regarding the EU, I am no expert, but I think it is not accurate to say we get nothing in return.
Would have been nice if you answered my question, instead of asking me one
It would not be in the interest of the EU to do that I would imagine. If in the future EU started making "daft decisions", I am sure the people in this country would have the will power and the option to elect a government that would give us another referendum to exit the EU.
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