Poll: Poll: Prime Minister Theresa May calls General Election on June 8th

Who will you vote for?

  • Conservatives

  • Labour

  • Lib Dem

  • UKIP

  • Other (please state)

  • I won't be voting

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U-turns are fine and reasonable when you are talking about an ongoing policy that is not working, or is no longer fitting the situation on the ground or maybe better thinking has come along
thats responsible government

A U turn on a major manifesto pledge a few days after its publishing during a general election is calamitous, its that you could come up with such a bad idea and think its good, that you are out of touch, or that you rushed it without enough thought, that people are mocking you for (not the U turn itself)
 
GAC said:
a simple question for everyone and not aimed at any political party.

but when a mp does a u-turn why are people so eager to jump on them. surely a mp listening or figuring out they need to change their stance is a good thing ?? so why do so many people be it mass media or politicians and members of the public act like total idiots having fits shouting "U TURN!!!!" id rather have a politician be grown up enough to say they where wrong or at the very least change their stance if proven wrong, rather than just ignore everything and plod on.
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Because they're unwilling to look at their advisers for actual advice, they forgot their own manifesto with the tax increases for self-employed... if the public are doing their manifesto for them, whats the point in the party?
 
U-turns make her look out of touch, especially for a PM who has made it all about her leadership. It makes her look indecisive and not sticking with principles as well as not having the full confidence of the party. In the end it comes down to which cause the least damage, sticking to your policy or, reversing course.
 
GAC said:
a simple question for everyone and not aimed at any political party.

but when a mp does a u-turn why are people so eager to jump on them. surely a mp listening or figuring out they need to change their stance is a good thing ?? so why do so many people be it mass media or politicians and members of the public act like total idiots having fits shouting "U TURN!!!!" id rather have a politician be grown up enough to say they where wrong or at the very least change their stance if proven wrong, rather than just ignore everything and plod on.
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Doing a u turn is hardly strong and stable is it?

In these instances it shows a poorly thought out manifesto, that the opposition gets called out on, if it's a policy that isn't working and they admit it then that's cool, they've seen it's not doing what it should and are going to set about changing it, but in a manifesto pledge you should not be doing a u turn.
 
danielanthony said:
ISIS wants us all dead and Corbyn only wants to negotiate. It seems like any Corbyn plan for peace would involve our voluntary slaughter or conversion to Islam.
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I don't think for ISIS he really cares what happens to them, they're already more or less dead in Iraq and slowly dying in Syria. It's what comes after that's important.
 
yeah all valid points but again why the screeching from everyone when it seems we can all agree mp's doing a u turn for whatever reason is probably a good thing in most instances, sure they could have researched more or listened to their advisers or even had better advice, but for people who to start jumping up and down like a bunch of chimps on acid screaming they u turned, seems rather odd. yeah make fun of someone making a mess of it due to their own incompetence but if something is so obviously not going to work and they u turn, i still think its a good thing.

as for manifesto's id really wish there was a mechanism to hold partys to account over them where they would have to set time tables for some of the things to actually happen or being started to implement rather than they 12-18 ,month cabinet change and things get tweaked down and forgotten about come the next election and its all change again. sure we can vote afresh at the next election but by then its a whole new set of pledges and we start all over.
 
GAC said:
a simple question for everyone and not aimed at any political party.

but when a mp does a u-turn why are people so eager to jump on them. surely a mp listening or figuring out they need to change their stance is a good thing ?? so why do so many people be it mass media or politicians and members of the public act like total idiots having fits shouting "U TURN!!!!" id rather have a politician be grown up enough to say they where wrong or at the very least change their stance if proven wrong, rather than just ignore everything and plod on.
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My guess, is that if you're going to do something that's going to effect millions of people, you're expected to have done some proper background checks into whether it'd work, especially when it's something that's clearly going to be disliked by the general public.

Then when you do an about face in next to no time at all, it'll look like nothing was done before hand & it's all a case of "Hmm, let's state this figure/reasoning & hope no one notices...".
 
GAC said:
yeah all valid points but again why the screeching from everyone when it seems we can all agree mp's doing a u turn for whatever reason is probably a good thing in most instances, sure they could have researched more or listened to their advisers or even had better advice, but for people who to start jumping up and down like a bunch of chimps on acid screaming they u turned, seems rather odd. yeah make fun of someone making a mess of it due to their own incompetence but if something is so obviously not going to work and they u turn, i still think its a good thing.

as for manifesto's id really wish there was a mechanism to hold partys to account over them where they would have to set time tables for some of the things to actually happen or being started to implement rather than they 12-18 ,month cabinet change and things get tweaked down and forgotten about come the next election and its all change again. sure we can vote afresh at the next election but by then its a whole new set of pledges and we start all over.
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If that happened then parties would be so vague you wouldn't be able to hold them to account. Although I feel the same way. The simple fact is if the government don't deliver on their manifesto it is up to the electorate to vote for a different party.
 
I still fail to see how scrapping tuition fees and presumably funding universities from the public purse is a progressive policy. I can see it leading to fewer poorer courses and poorer universities.

Maybe when fewer that 10-15% actually went to university it was affordable, but when 50% go up?

I think that there will be a black hole there.
 
nkata said:
I still fail to see how scrapping tuition fees and presumably funding universities from the public purse is a progressive policy. I can see it leading to fewer poorer courses and poorer universities.

Maybe when fewer that 10-15% actually went to university it was affordable, but when 50% go up?

I think that there will be a black hole there.
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OK, well let's start getting some funding going by charging Scotland for NHS prescriptions, as well as bringing them in line with Uni course fees, seems only fair.
 
VincentHanna said:
Sorry, can you point me to the bit in Corbyn's speech earlier where he said he wants to negotiate with ISIS?
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How about much earlier when Paris was attacked: http://www.express.co.uk/news/polit...tol-speech-Paris-terror-attacks-UN-resolution

The most relevant bit IMO:
In a scathing attack, former party leader candidate Chuka Umunna claimed Mr Corbyn’s views should disqualify him from office in the wake of the Paris atrocities.
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I wonder what Chuka thinks now?

How quickly we forget:
The left-winger sparked fury among his MPs last week when he initially appeared to suggest he did not back 'shoot to kill' policies if Britain's security forces faced a similar jihadist attack in the UK.
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But he's a decent, honest man, who has always held the same beliefs.
 
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And the sort of people Corbyn likes to hang around with http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/pol...rbyn-friend-to-Hamas-Iran-and-extremists.html

Mr Corbyn has met the leadership of Hamas, including Mr Haniyeh, several times, but they are not the only terror group he has had dealings with. He has also praised, and spoken on platforms with, representatives of the Iranian-backed Hezbollah, and once shared a platform with the Black September hijacker, Leila Khaled. In November 2012, Mr Corbyn hosted a meeting in Parliament with Mousa Abu Maria, a member of the banned terrorist group Palestinian Islamic Jihad.
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The same year, Mr Corbyn also agreed to speak alongside two of Britain’s leading domestic bigots, Abdurraheem Green and Wasim Kempson, at a conference held at Arsenal FC’s Emirates Stadium. The club barred Mr Green from its premises at the last minute after learning that he advocates a husband’s right to beat his wife.

Green has also stated that “whoever claims that the Jew and the Christian are our brethren in faith has, without doubt, made a statement of clear kufr [disbelief]” and quotes a saying of the Prophet that “if you find a Jew or Christian walking down the street, push them to the side.”
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So, I can't really see why people think Corbyn has more integrity or a higher morality than any politician when he's clearly happy to stand alongside unpalatable people in order to gain some self-promotion.
 
abdul-haq-meets-margaret-thatcher-g5g62f.jpg


Blew up 28, mainly Soviet children at Kabul airport.
 
danielanthony said:
And the sort of people Corbyn likes to hang around with http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/pol...rbyn-friend-to-Hamas-Iran-and-extremists.html

So, I can't really see why people think Corbyn has more integrity or a higher morality than any politician when he's clearly happy to stand alongside unpalatable people in order to gain some self-promotion.
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How do you think we have peace in Ireland? Hint: It's because the Government at the time was secretly meeting with the IRA. The only difference is that Corbyn was being more open about it. If you want lasting solutions then you need to get everyone talking. You don't have to give in to their demands, but you need people to stop bombing each other long enough to have some meaningful dialogue.

I'm not the worlds biggest Corbyn fan, but what he's said today is absolutely spot on.
 
FishFluff said:
How do you think we have peace in Ireland? Hint: It's because the Government at the time was secretly meeting with the IRA. The only difference is that Corbyn was being more open about it. If you want lasting solutions then you need to get everyone talking. You don't have to give in to their demands, but you need people to stop bombing each other long enough to have some meaningful dialogue.

I'm not the worlds biggest Corbyn fan, but what he's said today is absolutely spot on.
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Christ, what I'm saying is that he's as dodgy as every other politician, and today is a U-turn of his views when the Paris terror attack happened. I'm not saying it's unusual, it's just not a new kind of politics which we were promised and I doubt things would be much different if he got into power (only other interest groups would be satisfied).
 
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